Are you a Binitarian?

by reniaa 27 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • slimboyfat
  • mouthy

    Reniee.Why not ask the HOLY SPIRIT to teach you truth.?
    Why not ask Jesus to come into you.?

    Why not ask God to guide ,lead, & direct you apart from the Wt rules.????

  • BurnTheShips
    If the Holy Spirit is the 3rd person of the Trinity then:

    The person of God can fill us Reniaa. God is a spirit, and he can do this. God can dwell within us, Reniaa. These texts do not prove that the Holy Spirit is not a person. God can be in us, and we can be in God. God transcends locality.

    You cannot deny this is possible Reniaa, demons are spiritual persons too, and you know the Bible says they can dwell in a human being and possess them.


  • isaacaustin

    Before Jesus' death he said to his disciples that he was going away and told his disciples he would send the Holy Spirit:

    John 14:16 and I will request the Father and he will give you another ("allos") helper to be with you forever, 17 the spirit of the truth, . . ."

    If someone was helping you and then said he had to go but he would send another helper to be with you. When Jesus left and promised to send "another" helper, that meant another somebody like himself, a person. The Greek word for "another" in this verse is "allos" and means another of the same kind. In Greek there is a word, "heteros", that means another of a different kind,..If Jesus had meant that he would send another helper that was not a person like him, but an impersonal force, we would see the Greek word "heteros" here. See how both words are used in Ga 1:

    Galatians 1:6 I marvel that you are being so quickly removed from the One who called you with Christ's undeserved kindness over to another ("heteros" - of a different kind) sort of good news. 7 But it is not another ("allos" - of a similar kind); only there are certain ones who are causing you trouble and wanting to pervert the good news about the Christ."

    These Galatians had gone over to another different good news that was not another good news of the same kind. In John 14:16 when Jesus said that he would send "another" helper, the helper that Jesus would send, the Holy Spirit, would be another ("allos") helper, a person like Jesus.

    Jesus said at John 12:49 “because I have not spoken out of my own impulse, but the Father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak.”

    When Jesus said that he did not speak of his "own impulse", did this mean that Jesus was not a person and not able to think on his own or only able to repeat what he heard? Jesus said the same thing about the Holy Spirit at John 16:

    John 16:13 However, when that one arrives, the spirit of the truth, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own impulse, but what things he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things coming. 14 That one will glorify me, because he will receive from what is mine and will declare it to you. 15 All the things that the Father has are mine. That is why I said he receives from what is mine and declares [it] to you."

    Jesus said the same thing about himself as he said about the “spirit of the truth” Since he tells his disciples that the Spirit will not speak of his own impulse it means that the Spirit has the capacity to speak on “his own”. That is why Jesus was informing his disciples beforehand that the Spirit would not be acting on his own just as Jesus would not. Jesus said that he could not do anything on his own at John 5:19 and that did not imply that he was not a person. So when Jesus said the same thing for the Spirit that does not imply that the Spirit is an impersonal force. If the “spirit of the truth” is only a mindless active force under God's control and Jesus' disciples knew this, why would Jesus bother to even say that the “spirit” would not be speaking on “his own impulse”? They would already know that? Jesus said that the Spirit speaks what he hears. So the Spirit is able to hear something that comes from a separate person… if the Spirit were only a force that transmits information from God, why didnt Jesus say that? Why did he say that the Spirit hears and speaks as if it were a person?

  • isaacaustin

    Reniaa not exactly sure hwat you think you last post refuted. We do not hold to madalism or say that all 3 are the same person.

  • isaacaustin

    If the Spirit is part of the Father as the WT says then it would always have had everything the Father has. Why does the Spirit need to receive things from Jesus? Why would Jesus bother to explain that once he receives everything from the Father then the Spirit can take from what Jesus has? This simply shows the perfect operation of the trinity…the Spirit, just like Jesus, is a submissive person that receives everything from the Father (or the Son once he has everything from the Father).

    Romans 8 shows the Spirit pleads for us just like Jesus does:

    22 For we know that all creation keeps on groaning together and being in pain together until now. 23 Not only that, but we ourselves also who have the firstfruits, namely, the spirit, yes, we ourselves groan within ourselves, while we are earnestly waiting for adoption as sons, the release from our bodies by ransom. 24 For we were saved in [this] hope; but hope that is seen is not hope, for when a man sees a thing, does he hope for it? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we keep on waiting for it with endurance.

    26 In like manner the spirit also joins in with help for our weakness; for the [problem of] what we should pray for as we need to we do not know, but the spirit itself pleads for us with groanings unuttered. 27 Yet he who searches the hearts knows what the meaning of the spirit is, because it is pleading in accord with God for holy ones.

    28 Now we know that God makes all his works cooperate together for the good of those who love God, those who are the ones called according to his purpose; 29 because those whom he gave his first recognition he also foreordained to be patterned after the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 Moreover, those whom he foreordained are the ones he also called; and those whom he called are the ones he also declared to be righteous. Finally those whom he declared righteous are the ones he also glorified.

    31 What, then, shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who will be against us? 32 He who did not even spare his own Son but delivered him up for us all, why will he not also with him kindly give us all other things? 33 Who will file accusation against God’s chosen ones? God is the One who declares [them] righteous. 34 Who is he that will condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died, yes, rather the one who was raised up from the dead, who is on the right hand of God, who also pleads for us.

    verse 22 it is “all creation” is groaning…verse 23 “we” Christians are groaning…verse 34 it is Jesus…verse 26 it says “in like manner” the spirit pleads before God. How can the spirit plead “n like manner” like Christians and like Jesus, if it is only an impersonal active force? Everything it pleads like is a person. If the “spirit” is a part of the Father why does the spirit plead before the Father? This shows the spirit is separate from the Father.

  • parakeet

    Are you a Binitarian?

    No, I'm a Pastafarian, but I don't differentiate the meatballs from the spaghetti when I worship.

  • mindmelda

    They are all aspects of the Divine, and work together. Aside from that, I get a headache thinking too much about the actual nature of a being as powerful as God would have to be.

    I tend to think of Christ as the manifestation of God's love that became human so we could draw close to God, the Father as the source of that love. and the Spirit as the outworking of that love.They are all aspects of love, and God is love. That's an easier way of thinking about it for me.

    The scriptures that really convinced me was the first chapter of Hebrews. It's undeniable that Paul is applying a quote in Isaiah about YHWH to Christ. It's very direct and unmistakable. Paul felt Christ was the Eternal, the I AM, the human manifestation of the God the Hebrews worshipped for centuries.

    Christ makes God intimately accessible in a way that was not available before. We always had the distancing of our imperfection until his sacrifice, which is why it was necessary. Now we are free to approach in freedom.

    What's so hard to understand about any of that? It makes more sense to me than Christ being "created" for a specific mission, then delegated somewhere between God and angels. I'm not surprised this "corporate" view of heaven makes sense to JWs, as they're a corporation. They seem to feel everything must be organized like their corporation, even heaven. Are they making the mistake of seeing God in their own image? I wonder. It happens a lot.

    To think that God manifested this aspect of himself as human for our sakes makes the sacrifice that much more powerful and personal for me.

  • yadda yadda 2
    yadda yadda 2

    I agree with Reniaa on this one. The bible hints at a kind of binitarianism at best.

    Trinitarianism is a completely false dogma and Christendom's greatest apostasy. It never ceases to amaze me how many ex-JW's come to believe in it and defend it on here.

  • mouthy

    I agree with Reniaa on this one. Well Reniaa will be pleased!!! SHE HAS A CONVERT!!!
    Away to go Reniaa! That should count as a bible study

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