Wanted: JW apologist to explain how Michael is Jesus is Michael

by Mad Dawg 50 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Leolaia
  • Mad Dawg
    Mad Dawg

    I heard it said once of a preacher that he preached with the voice of God. Does that mean that the preacher was God? Or that the speaker thought the preacher was God?

  • reniaa

    i missed a point from daniel

    Daniel 12

    1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. now compare this to another daniel scripture Daniel 11:7

    7 "One from her family line will arise to take her place. He will attack the forces of the king of the North and enter his fortress; he will fight against them and be victorious.

    when someone arises/stand ups biblically they are taking up rulership it is very specific wording and there is no doubt that Michael is arising to take kingly power he is a prince.

  • insearchoftruth

    From the book of Enoch, though not part of the cannon, it is referred to in the book of Jude.

    XX. Names and Functions of the Seven Archangels.



    And these are the names of the holy angels who watch. Uriel, one of the holy angels, who is


    over the world and over Tartarus. Raphael, one of the holy angels, who is over the spirits of men.


    Raguel, one of the holy angels who takes vengeance on the world of the luminaries. Michael, one


    of the holy angels, to wit, he that is set over the best part of mankind and over chaos. Saraqâêl,


    one of the holy angels, who is set over the spirits, who sin in the spirit. Gabriel, one of the holy


    angels, who is over Paradise and the serpents and the Cherubim. Remiel, one of the holy angels, whom God set over those who rise.

  • RubaDub

    I recall an article that stated that both Jesus and Michael are indeed both names for the one we know as Jesus.

    It is likely that Michael is Jesus last name. Joseph, his earthly step-father, was commonly known as Joseph Michael.

    So while some may have referred to Jesus as Jesus, others spoke of him as Michael.

    It is similar to Simon Peter. Some referred to him as Simon, some as Peter. Others simply referred to him as Sy or Pete.

    So now we have a better understanding of why the Society teaches that Jesus and Michael are one and the same.

    Rub a Dub

  • Tuesday
    when someone arises/stand ups biblically they are taking up rulership it is very specific wording and there is no doubt that Michael is arising to take kingly power he is a prince

    Says who?

    You have in the Trinity thread said that people are connecting scriptures for context that aren't necessarily supposed to be linked together. I feel this is no different. Standing up doesn't necessarily mean standing up to take rulership, it could be standing up against something.

    I find it rather hypocritical that someone would call trinitarians out for grapsing for straws, when this is doing the EXACT same thing.

    Actually I don't find it rather hypocritical I find it completely hypocritical.

  • Witness 007
    Witness 007

    Leolaia What the heck... Jackson IS the archangel????

  • snowbird

    Reniaa, since you mentioned Daniel, may I suggest that you read Daniel chapter 10 very carefully and prayerfully.

    Compare the description of the "man" who spoke with and strengthened Daniel to the description of the Risen Lord in Revelation chapter 1.

    Note, too, how the "man" refers to Michael in Daniel 10, and connect the dots.

    Peace to you.


  • isaacaustin

    Dan 10:

    4 As I looked up, I saw a man dressed in linen with a belt of fine gold around his waist.
    His body was like chrysolite, his face shown like lightning, his eyes were like fiery torches, his arms and feet looked like burnished bronze, and his voice sounded like the roar of a multitude.
    I alone, Daniel, saw the vision; but great fear seized the men who were with me; they fled and hid themselves, although they did not see the vision.
    So I was left alone, seeing this great vision. No strength remained in me; I turned the color of death and was powerless.
    When I heard the sound of his voice, I fell face forward in a faint.
    But then a hand touched me, raising me to my hands and knees.
    "Daniel, beloved," he said to me, "understand the words which I am speaking to you; stand up, for my mission now is to you." When he said this to me, I stood up trembling.
    "Fear not, Daniel," he continued; "from the first day you made up your mind to acquire understanding and humble yourself before God, your prayer was heard. Because of it I started out,
    5 but the prince of the kingdom of Persia stood in my way for twenty-one days, until finally Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me. I left him there with the prince of the kings of Persia,
    and came to make you understand what shall happen to your people in the days to come; for there is yet a vision concerning those days."

    Rev 1

    11 Then I turned to see whose voice it was that spoke to me, and when I turned, I saw seven gold lampstands
    and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, 12 wearing an ankle-length robe, with a gold sash around his chest.
    The hair of his head was as white as white wool or as snow, 13 and his eyes were like a fiery flame.
    His feet were like polished brass refined in a furnace, 14 and his voice was like the sound of rushing water.
    In his right hand he held seven stars. 15 A sharp two-edged sword came out of his mouth, and his face shone like the sun at its brightest.
    When I caught sight of him, I fell down at his feet as though dead. 16 He touched me with his right hand and said, "Do not be afraid. I am the first and the last,

    Daniel's context obviously show Michael is other than the person comforting Daniel.

  • Mad Dawg
    Mad Dawg

    Ren my dear, are you saying that anyplace it says in the Bible that someone is arising/standing up, that it must be Jesus? What about when Jesus told the paralyzed man to " Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house. " (Mark 2:11)? How can the paralyzed man be Jesus if Jesus was talking to him? What was the paralyzed man to arise to the rulership of?

    Nehimiah 9:5 Then the Levites, Jeshua, and Kadmiel, Bani, Hashabniah, Sherebiah, Hodijah, Shebaniah, and Pethahiah, said , Stand up and bless the LORD your God for ever and ever:

    In verse one, we find they are talking to the congragation of Israel. Is the whole poplutation of Israel taking up rulership? Are they all the Son of God? If you check a concordance, you will see a lot of people arising and standing, are they all the Son of God?

    Both of your verses show them leading an army. One does not need to be a king or the King to do so. Can you show me where only the Son of God can lead an army? Otherwise, there is no connection between the two verses.

    Please show me where it plainly says that Michael is Jesus. You have shown a lot of similarities between the two, but that does not make them the same person any more than showing similariteis between Satan and Jesus makes them the same person.

    Your help on this is much appreciated. Thank you,


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