Just a couple of set of ground rules I would like to set for this. Frequently, one of two options for those who want to leave JW's are 1) a purposeful, public, resignation (or disASSociation as JW's call it) vs 2) what is commonly called in the ex JW internet world, "The Fade". I know that emotions run deep on this subject for good reason, because of what is at stake, and all that is perceived to be lost. (potentially)
And at the forefront, I want all to know that I as the author of this first post, left, blew up the bridge and didn't turn back. I didn't consider fading, but part of that reasoning I had then I personally still hold to.
So I mean this thread to be helpful, as a way to think things through regarding one decision vs another. I know my decisions can't possibly be for everyone, yet, when I juxtapose the consequences, seen and unseen of one vs the other, I do have a viewpoint that I would like to put out there....
I know that the reasons to fade are very real. To lose most/all of your friends, possibly a marriage partner, possibly a job, the daunting thought of having to start over. I don't dismiss these one bit.
Also, there are some that have to "fade". Teens still living at home. Wives or mothers who have to think of kids and other considerations.
I guess I can crystalize why I think a fade is at best, the least desireable compromise you can make for one simple reason:
You.
For all that is possibly to be gained (or kept, preserved, etc) there is one thing a fade is guaranteed to kill: You.
A fade to me implies that you are putting other people, and other people's opinions ahead of you. That sounds romantically noble, but it is incredibly tarnished as a point of view. It implies that there are circumstances that are more important then you. It says that your real feelings, your real viewpoints aren't as important as maintaining the illusion of others. Even if the benefits are tangible and real, I often wonder if the price is so high that it is too high to be paid.
How much do you cost? Who will replace you?
The Governing Body would rather not replace you. Lately, numbers approaching 100,000 per year leave. At least that same number per year "disappear" off their active roles. JW's won't work without people, so there is a lot of pressure, and a ton of propaganda put out in Watchtowers to not leave. (hey, where will you go?)
I am reminded of one very corny, cheesy lyric from a 70's song: "I've been to paradise, but I've never been to me." If you will forgive the corny song, I think there is a gold nugget of truth there: To be you and to visit you is the one place the Governing Body would do anything to prevent. The minute you get to take a vacation, visit your brain and your heart, and you admit to yourself what you see, who you are, and what the truth really is, then the GB is dead.
Thats why you have all the crazy rules about disfellowshipping and shunning. Lets face it, at the crux of the fade is a way around JW promoted shunning. It seems apparant to me that the GB knows they would actually lose a ton more members if the threat of shunning and being shut out of loved ones lives weren't there.
It's as if thats too horrible a fate to comprehend for many. So they must choose, themselves, or other people?
Actually, this isn't an uncommon choice among most groups. From the time we were in school, we all have to deal with and learn how much we give to our group, our posse, vs how much of ourselves we keep for ourselves. In a way, we all fade, or hide, who we are from our friends. I always respected the few people who just let it all hang out...
Of course, the stakes are higher under threat of shunning.
So I guess the decision to be made is, you vs them? Right? And how much do YOU, value YOU? Are the consequences of turmoil while in better then the turmoil one will (temporarily) have to deal with? Because there are bad consequences, very bad, harmful to anyone who has to pretend to be what they aren't. And the Governing Body wouldn't have it any other way.....
I guess if you view yourself as expendable, or not as important as others, your decision will likely reflect that.
This is just a starting post. I am sure there is a lot I could say to clarify, and if I have offended, I not only apologize, but I hope you will share with me what you disagree with. That will help me perhaps to understand more then I think I might....
I hope this will be a productive and healthy discussion.....
To Fade or Not To Fade... An Opinion.....
by AllTimeJeff 57 Replies latest jw friends
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AllTimeJeff
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drew sagan
fwiw
Individual situations vary so greatly that defining the "moral" correctness of fading is somewhat impossible. To one person fading may simply involve no longer going to the Kingdom Hall. To another person it may mean they must continue to pretend to happily go along with living a JW lifestyle.
Each person has to draw thier own line in the sand and act accordingly.
In my own personal experience me and my wife attempted a fade, but then hit a big snag. We were fading for the sake of my wifes family (her mom and sister are jws). Her mother however turned my wife into the Elders for joining the YMCA. At the time she thought she was doing Gods will, something that would help her daughter see the errors of her ways. Of course it backfired. I DA'd and she was DF'd. We're never coming back and she knows it. She really regrets her decision and realizes it was a poor one to make. Knowing what she knows now she probably never would have screwed up our fade the way she did, but that's life. Now she's rather content with my wife not being JW. Talk about irony.
I know other people that just stopped going and were hardly effected by it. There really is no standard you can depend on in situations like this.
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TheOldHippie
Good post
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rockmehardplace
This is a great post. For me, with all my issues facing me, my two options are to a) fade physically and mentally, stop going to meetings and living to the standard set by an uneducated board of directors or b) fade mentally, still live like the JW but just know it is all BS. Where am I now? Wanting option (a) but working with (b). So many people have opinions as to what to do, but the only one who can really answer this is me. I weigh pros and cons all the time. Lose family and gain my freedom in every sense of the word, or keep family and feel as if I am in bondage at least physically. The loss of family is devastating to me. I think of the scripture where Jesus said if you give up mother/father/family for the sake of him you will gain so much more. I really have a hard time with that one on very many levels. There are relationships you just can't replace. You will never be able to take back memories and although you can make new ones with someone else, the ones you had will never be built upon if you lose that relationship. I liken it to building a skyscraper. You start building a 100 floor skyscraper but at floor 20 you stop for whatever reason. You then pick up and start building another skyscraper next to it. As you reach the top of your new skyscraper, the other one still sits there unfinished. Knowing what potential that one had and where it could be today devastates you because it is unfinished. And no matter how incredible the new one is, the unfinished one will always remind you of what could have been. That is why I hold on to family and my decision is so difficult. You make a comment about how much do "you value YOU". I have a very high sense of value for myself. I think that is why I am in the dilemma. I also care deeply for others. That is part of what makes me ME.
Thank you for starting this post.
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Mickey mouse
This dilemma reminds me of the movie "The Firm". Rather ironically Tom Cruise finds himself in the grip of a cult like law firm which is actually a money laundering operation for the mafia. He thinks he only has two choices: cooperate with the FBI, testify against the firm and lose everything, or else tow the line and try to survive within the system. Near the end of the movie he realises he has a third option. He likens himself to a ship out at sea containing a cargo which would remain at sea so long as the mafia bosses don't pursue him or his family. Apostates are in a very similar position. We have information which could seriously damage the money laundering operation known as the WBTS. They know this and the prospect frightens them, that much is clear from the more recent WT articles attempting to demonise apostates and reinforce their own authority.
Maybe one day as a group we will wake up to the fact that we actually have the upper hand here and there are not just "two options".
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gubberningbody
I chose a dramatic fade.
Why?
To get people to think.
Why?
Because I prefer to stir things up and DA'ing would provide closure for them - I don't ever want to give them closure.
Why?
Because of shadenfreude.
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leavingwt
At some level, I decided that my freedom was worth more than my JW family and friends. I was unwilling to place limitations on my behavior or "look over my shoulder" as I lived my life. I desired to raise my kids, unapologetically as non-cult members.
So, in my own personal set of circumstances, a fade was not possible.
Would it be nice to still have friendships and relationships with a few JWs? Sure. Would that be worth more than my freedom? Not to me.
I'm a patient man. EVENTUALLY, some of my former friends will wake up and find me.
Also, after exiting, I discovered a closet apostate in my former Hall. When I approached him with my thoughts, he cut me off, and said, "You can stop right there. I figured all of that out after the 1995 Generation change."
His reason for remaining a JW (on paper)? His elderly mother who he cares for. In his words, "I don't want to break her heart."
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shopaholic
Great thread!
When I first came to this board, I was little confused on what it meant to "fade". There were "faders" that still attend meetings and then there were "faders" that just walked awayed without DA'ing. I also noticed that were posters that appeared to have been "fading" for a few years.
Anyway, when I first accepted that the WT dogma was not "the truth" my first reaction was to DA. I was absolutely livid, for weeks. It was difficult for me to attend meetings and not just stand up and scream "GET OUT OF HER". So I left...simply walked away...no subtle fading, no fake service slips, no faking any of it...one day I was there, then in the middle of the meeting I left to go to the mall and decided I no longer considered myself a JW.
Although I was completely inactive, I deliberated for a few months whether or not to DA. Then I decided that I did not want the WT to have that type of grip on my life. If I DA'd, my family and friends would be forced to choose...me or the WT. Also, I could not come and go as freely as I wished. So I decided that walking away was right for me (as indicated by the number of times "I" is used in this post...LOL).
AllTimeJeff said:"A fade to me implies that you are putting other people, and other people's opinions ahead of you." I think this is true of people that are "faking it" but say that they are fading. I think we need another category for "fakers". There are a number of "fakers" on this board. To fade, in my opinion is rooted in selfishness, wanting your cake and eating it too. Besides, if its your cake why shouldn't you eat it? ;)
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Waffles
I am currently DF'd and a few months from (most likely) being re-instated. Upon re-instatement, I plan on pulling off the aforementioned "The Fade" tactic.
Why?
Because I love my family more than I hate the b0rganization, that's why. My entire family was raised as JW's, it is all they know. As such, I only hold them partially accountable for being so mentally enslaved. Yes, it has hurt me very deeply that they've utterly shunned me since I've been DF'd. I hate to quote a scripture... but I will anyway: "love does not keep account of the injury". My family is good peoples.
I work for a large company in a big corporate environment. In my heart, I don't give two shits whether or not this big Fortune 500 operation all goes down the toilet. However when you're at work in front of your superiors, you put on your game face and act accordingly, being a company man, towing the company line, wanting all the best for the company for the sake of perpetuating your position there and career advancement. That's just the way the world works, you're going to have to put on an act at some point in order to move through life when circumstances arise in which the benefits of doing so outweigh the cons.
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Finally-Free
Whatever you do, do it for your reasons, not anyone else's. I DA'd because I wanted the JWs completely out of my life without delay. I didn't care if I lost out on anyone's conditional "love", regardless of who they might be. I can find that shit anywhere.
W