A Secret about DF'ing that Elders will NEVER tell you.

by Amazing 61 Replies latest jw friends

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  Amazing

  When I discussed this with some ex-JWs in the past, they have pointed out to me that the following is not done in actual pracrice. Of course it is not done in practrice ... that is why I referred to it as a "secret" because Elders do not normally disclose such information, either because they fear its effect, or because they have not thoroughly paid attention to the "Pay Attention" book. In this post, I am not arguing about actual practice ... rather what the undisclosed, withheld, secretive information is ... and how being armed may allow """some""" JWs to relax their conscience.

  A Secret that Elders will not openly tell you. Once armed with this secret information, you have some power to possibly moderate your relationships with your JW relatives who will listen to you. The Elder manual, "Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock", in Unit 5(a), "Overseers 'Ruling for Justice Itself', under the sub-heading "Proper View of Disfellowshipped and Disassociated Persons," the bolded lead-in sentance says, "The principle set forth in Jesus' words at Matthew 10:34-38 has a bearing on situations involving disfellowshipped or disassociated relatives," then goes on to state in the last paragraph of Page 103:

  "Normally, a close relative would not be disfellowshipped for associating with a disfellowshipped person unless there is spiritual association of an effort made to justify or excuse the wrongful course."

  The explicite Watchtower instruction is very clear and not modified by notes in any Elder schools since its publication in 1991 that I am aware. There are no other contextual modifiers. The following page goes on to make allowance for giving a Bible talk at a funeral of the DF'd person. This information, therefore, stands current in 2009 as far as I know. Therefore, as long as the ex-JW and JW agree that they will not try to engage in anything that would be taken as excusing the ex-JW course in leaving the religion, then the JW is free to associate according to this instruction from the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class. It just cannot get simpler.

  If your JW relative is not trustful of this information, then maybe this can put your JW relative's conscience at ease, j ust have him/her talk with any Elder, and have him bring out his copy of the "Pay Attention" book as some call it, and read it for themselves. This may also cause your close JW relative to question why Elders are given secretive material not available to the general rank and file JW population, and why this little provision is NOT disclosed to them in the last 28 years. Maybe you and they can at least have some type of normal relationship.

  The "Flock" book is a fascinating book. Every JW should have a copy so they too can practice what is preached in private.

  Amazing
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  drew sagan

  Thanks alot! My wife is DF'd and her sister does not talk with her. I will point this out to her Dad, he may find it interesting.
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  quietlyleaving

  that explains a lot amazing
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  SnakesInTheTower

  The Flock book was published in 1991 and has itself not been updated. However, recent Watchtower articles have been more explicit about not associating with DF relatives unless for absolute minimum necessary to take care of "necessary family matters" (I believe is how it is worded).

  Maybe someone with a WT CD can give us a quick quote.

  And good luck having an elder show you anything out of the Flock book...especially if it shows them they are wrong.

  Snakes ().... former elder and MTS grad.
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  garybuss

  The only thing that would piss me off is if the Witness relatives, who have shunned me and people important to me, started to un-shun us. Thanks to their departures I have a good life.
  
  
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  Amazing

  Snakes: Likewise, as a former Elder myself, I agree that there are many Watchtower articles before and after the "Pay Attention" book which give JWs the impression that they can not associate with DF'd relatives. That is why I may the opening point about actual practice. Hell, when the CO comes to town and learns of any 'associating' he will blow a gasket if he learns that some are doing this sort of thing. But, when push comes to shove, an Elder will fall back on the "Pay Attention" book before looking up much in the Watchtower ... and a saavy JW who corners an Elder into referring to it can save him/her self from being DF'd for this reason.
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  blondie

  Are these the quotes you are looking for Snakes?

  ** w07 1/15 p. 20 Remaining Steadfast When a Child Rebels ***The situation is different if the disfellowshipped one is not a minor and is living away from home. The apostle Paul admonished Christians in ancient Corinth: "Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man." (1 Corinthians 5:11) While caring for necessary family matters may require some contact with the disfellowshipped person, a Christian parent should strive to avoid needless association.

  *** w83 1/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***Another sort of loss may be felt by loyal Christian grandparents whose children have been disfellowshipped. They may have been accustomed to visiting regularly with their children, giving them occasion to enjoy their grandchildren. Now the parents are disfellowshipped because of rejecting Jehovah’s standards and ways. So things are not the same in the family. Of course, the grandparents have to determine if some necessary family matters require limited contact with the disfellowshipped children.

  *** w81 9/15 p. 29 par. 18 If a Relative Is Disfellowshiped . . . ***The second situation that we need to consider is that involving a disfellowshiped or disassociated relative who is not in the immediate family circle or living at one’s home. Such a person is still related by blood or marriage, and so there may be some limited need to care for necessary family matters. Nonetheless, it is not as if he were living in the same home where contact and conversation could not be avoided.

  *** w70 6/1 pp. 351-352 Questions From Readers ***Again, the disfellowshiping does not dissolve the flesh-and-blood ties, but, in this situation, contact, if it were necessary at all, would be much more rare than between persons living in the same home. Yet, there might be some absolutely necessary family matters requiring communication, such as legalities over a will or property

  *** w70 6/1 p. 352 Questions From Readers ***But until that happens, faithful Christians have an obligation to uphold the disfellowshiping action by avoiding association with the disfellowshiped individual. If that one is a relative living outside the home, they will try to have no fellowship with him at all. And if some unavoidable and absolutely necessary family matter comes up, they will keep contact with that one to a bare minimum, definitely not having any interchange of thoughts on spiritual matters.

  *** w63 7/15 p. 443 Family Responsibilities in Keeping Jehovah’s Worship Pure ***The disfellowshiping of a relative does not cancel out natural blood ties. However, it would be well to appreciate that only the contacts absolutely necessary in matters pertaining to family interests should be carried on with one who is disfellowshiped and who lives outside the family circle.
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  Scully

  If a JW relative's association with me has more to do with what the WTS's doctrine du jour says they can or cannot do than their familial relationship with me, then they can go f*ck themselves. I don't need that toxic bull$h!t in my life.
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  Amazing

  Blondie: With the exception of the last one, all your quotes come from before the release of "Pay Attention" book. And, as I noted to Snakes, if an Elder is pushed on the topic from the "Pay Attention" book he will rely on it ... and a JW can save him or her sel from being DF'd. In KM schools the Society will have Elders make notes in the margins ... and this is the text book of choice.

  Skully: Fine ... but some actuyally give a damn about their family, and may want to find a way to get through to them without imposing such standards as you defined that their family is unaware of ... and this perhaps is one way. Also, the main point of my post is not to deal with emotional blackmail ... but to highlight Watchtower hypocrisy and double-speak.
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  blondie

  Snakes, I hope you see something useful.