by yesidid 27 Replies latest jw friends
I was going to translate it tonight but decided to check my other favourite site Beacon for former Jw and there is a discussion and summary of the youtube clip. No translation needed as the summary is quite adequate.
http://www.channelc.org/cgi-bin/eboard30/index.cgi
wanna
BTTT
I read some years ago that four jw congregations in south africa collapsed.
this whole congregation left the witlesses years ago.
it seems like the elders started their secession when the circuit overseer came over and told them that they were spending too much time with the elderly and young ones, instead of going out in service (love acts toward needy were distracting from "the end needs")
then a lady's son was disfellowshipped for being an apostate, and she was immediately ganged up on by the elders and immediately asked to reject her son and make it known right there that she also reguarded him as an apostate.... she was scared shitless.
then other elders are talking about the organ transplant and blood fiasco.... they wrote to the wt asking explanation on the flip-flop and "why" and never got answers.
I think amongst the interviewed there was a ex-CO?
this was in 1998
i thought this clip was cool
This post is very interesting. A whole congregation said 'Screw it!' and left the Watchtower.
I thought I would translate this word for word. Some of it's a bit garbled because although they speak proper Italian, the accent is Sicilian, and at times, they speak too fast! I have transliterated it, so it kinda reads funny, but you get the sense of what they're trying to say.
(Begin) The JW's radically condemn this world because it's governed by Satan.
In Sicily a revolt broke out. In 1998 the whole body of elders and 70 publishers (the whole Congregation) in syracuse voluntarily quit the organization. They are dealing with the biggest mass disassociation in the whole of Italy so far.
"When the circuit overseer came, he criticized us for teaching stuff beyond what the organization teaches. We publicly encouraged the whole congregation to help old ones, young ones etc. Conveying the idea to encourage them to help each other. That's what we tried, to teach christian love.But he said that even if it was right, it went against the organization because the governing body from the organization gave a particular prominence in this time of the end, to the preaching work. Naturally, we try to encourage this to the maximum, this love, but it robbed time from the preaching work."
"He said 'Today what characterizes apostates is love. They speak a lot about love. we noticed that our works were these, instead of turning towards christian ideals like love, christ, god and man's wellbeing, it was directed towards a structure held in america. a governing body of JW's, therefore in short, we have served for years a power structure which was not christian, but this fact was crying out to us."
"So there's not to be christian love in the congregation?"
"It's a love, we would call, 'remotely driven'. because the rules are manyfold. The rules that are so imposed by his association. They don't have the time to get to know the real fundamental truth, one from the other. They continuously control everyone... who's got a skirt that's too short..rch...who's passed in front... who's started to talk to a priest. who's visited their parents who aren't JWs, who's gone to a dancing competition, or had a birthday, or lit a candle, etc..There are so many rules, they are continuously watching one another. On this aspect, instead of getting to know someone deeply, they like to judge one another. It was a really difficult job, because, from one point talking about these things, the other, on the other hand, says on the contrary. The Watchtower tells us to follow these blessed rules strictly!"
"The fthat come are really to cry about, without question. They say it is forbidden for a mother to invite a daughter to lunch, because she is a JW and she's left. The bigger picture is... It's worse for the mother rather than the daughter, because there's a procession... "(Cut off)
"You had a son who left, and two who were still in?"
(Old lady) "Yes I did"
"What does this mean?"
"It's an enormous feeling. You feel pulled out of it. You can imagine. I have two sons who don't want to see him. I don't want to even think about it."
"What did the elders say when your son left?"
"How many things... how many things..."
"They said we shouldn't see him anymore because he's a murderer. It was just like a court, 3 or 4 people, they make a judicial committee. That's why every one of them plays their own part. One says, 'Your son is a murderer, you know, don't you?'...A murderer, but what are you saying? I started to cry. They said, 'look! yes! he is without a heart! he didn't cry! He's not sorry, he was fine!' You have to say it, you have to say it with your own mouth. Stand up and say 'My son is an apostate!"
"Seeing your mother's suffering, did you consider to repent and come back?"
(the son)
"to be honest, this -No! With all the respect that I have for my mother, naturally, my principles, to be convinced of the certainty, not even, to make a mistake. But in that moment, I was certain I could help others, I could help them. We are never ever encouraged to help others, or spread these things.... not to have a crusade against JW's.... Us, now, publicly we can say, clearly on this occasion, the JW person can say, 'we are human, like the rest...' we understand more now... But it's against the organization, unfortunately, it's a poor religion. I made a written letter, it's difficult to cut the tentacles of this big poor religion.. I have to appreciate.... (starts to cry).... Er, scuse me. I'm full of emotion. Also, because I was telling something that made me shake.... I was saying I appreciate the way that my mum handled it. It's still so encouraging- "(Finished clip)
(elders drinking coffee)
"The major part of the sincere JWs who listen to what we're saying will feed their perplexity in the split, fully. Those of us who are compelled by resentment that we have cultivated from pride, there was something in us, something that made us lose the objective... the new order...lost the kingdom of god...this is what robbed us of our faith. This is what you or they will believe."
"They won't suspect you've been removed because of pride?"
"Absolutely, no. I don't have it. This is full of pride to say it. I would say to these persons, get the proof. You want to ask these questions to the elders in your congregation. You want o give them some questions. To those that respond, not to entrench themselves behind the infallibility of the presumed governing body, or FDS, but giving the objective reply. That is, the proof is this, if an organization is directed by holy spirit, they would have to demonstrate in this century of life, and I say, 'why, when we have requested the watchtower society, for what reason do we have to refusea transplant... then why do we have to then accept a transplant? An explanation was never given. The Watchtower society still has to furnish our faithful ones a reply. Another question is this- why up to 20 years ago, you could not receive a serum, a vaccine that could save your life?... now, serums, vaccines are allowed. In any organization in which it's not allowed to put these questions. an organization in which it's said 'there's freedom!' In which the conscience is your push on all other things, in which I, in what I decide with my conscience, or with my feelings, I have to give my son blood, because in that moment, I hold the ultimate, and only safeguard for life. I can be expelled out, without remission of sins, because I followed my conscience. Therefore, an organization in which my brothers, who have to assist me, became my judges, deprive me of my eternal life, because disfellowshipping means just that. So at this point, I ask sincere people, have you ever reflected on these things? Me, every now and again I think about it. But I had so much fear, to begin being an apostate, that closed all in a phrase, on me myself. (???) If Jehovah agrees, it means it's right. When Jehovah wants to change things, he will let me know by means of the Watchtower. There were times when, now it's useless to analyze them, this explanation that they gave me didn't satisfy me. (End of recording)
