How Should We Deal With "Pirates"? (page 4)

BurnTheShips

Looks like Western shipping is getting it's just deserts.

If the preceding article is true, perhaps the best way to deal with this is to negotiate with the clans, and prevent exploitation of Somalia's waters without their permission. A business deal is better than a war, and more profitable too.

BTS

Amazing

BurnTheShips,

Interesting article ... I question people who claim that they are acting to protect civilized interests and then do barbaric things like take hostages. They can get lots of sympathy from the UN and the Media around the world to their cause ... and talk to western nations to work out a deal. Once they take hostages, and pirate merchant ships, they are liars and need to be sunk ... whether they approach in ships or lifeboats.

Of course if the US or other nations are dumping illegally, or harming their fishing interests, that has to stop ... in the 1960s, local Turks tried to sue the western nations for poking holes in the sky with rockets used to send satilites into space. They claims that it caused a draught. One needs to understand why these people blame shipping, as there may be other factors causing problems.

... but, pirates who plead such a case cannot be trusted or believed. Their credibility is worthless. I don't believe them, any more than I believe men who take hostages in a bank because they claim to have a grievance with the bank or the city it is located.

BurnTheShips

Perhaps they are a people making war, Amazing and we have not heard about the whole story in our media. War is always barbaric, but not always criminal. And hostage taking has a long history in warfare. They seem to prefer the way their society is organized, under their traditional law and clan unit structure. Yet our international bodies want to impose a centralized government on them while our member nations plunder their resources. When they say enough and start to make war, we call them the pirates. We already know they are fierce warriors, they drove our people out in the 90's. Like I said, maybe we are better off making a deal with them so that our ships can traverse their waters safely.

BTS

oompa

no brainer these ships should be armed at least by Blackwater types...or even 4 military guys rented out would be cheaper and safer than what is now happening.......If that cant be done due to stoopid port laws.....then a cheap defensive method is not just the razor wire around the edge...but i think in inexpensive pvc or metal tubing with little spray holes in them....wrapped around rail that can be pressurised with a nasty and bad smelling acid....even lethal acid....one touch on the pump button and i dont see these guys making in up the ladder or rope

also....these little fishing boats these pirates have are a JOKE!!!......how can huge ships not carry faster metal hull boats that can be quickly deployed and just run over these fishing boats....a metal sheild for the pilot is all he would need and it would be near impossible for a bouncing little boat to hit a target anyway...no weapon but the boat and just ram them like boats have done for thousands of years........back to basics folks..........im signing up for Blackwater Naval Defense

Amazing

BurnTheShips,

One needs to be more specific than "European Ships." Europe is made up of many nations that have vessels, Italy, France, Britain, Germany, Norway, Sweden, etc. There are too many good and safe dumping areas out far at sea in the Southern Ocean, without going off the coast of Somalia. I suspect the story is bogus. The French, for example, pioneered safe storage of nuclear materials ... the same method the USA uses. The only nation I would ever suspect of such a thing is the former Soviet Union.

The US and the EU are made up of nations that have sympathy for the underdog ... news media love to embarass the US and other well off nations. The case being made could be true, but I suspect it as false until some credible evidence shows otherwise. I guess we can wait until the media says more and provides facts.

Yes, they are vicious pirates for taking ships and people for ransome ... they are crooks playing on people's sympathies. I get email everyday from someone in that part of the world who says that they lost their leg or arm or money, and they need me to send them money, blah, blah. Or they claim to be related to barrister so-and-so of the United Bank of Somalia, and they have Ten Million in US currency to give me if I let them use my bank account ... blah, blah, blah.

My sister, in the medical field, was part of an effort to ship free medical supplies and food to help the people of Somalia, and to go there and provide free medical services. The warring factions took the supplies, would not let the volunteers in the country, and let the food rot at the docks. My trust meter is very low right now.

snowbird

These pirates don't approach in ships. They are in just rickety boats.

also....these little fishing boats these pirates have are a JOKE!!!......

This is from MSN A-List.

Last year, there were more than 120 pirate attacks off the African coast, and the pirates made off with more than $100 million. There are more than 1,200 pirates roaming the coast of Africa now.

The pirates are often from Somalia, a country riddled with poverty and corruption

Somali pirates have money and spies in ports around the world to learn ships' travel plans. They also use high-tech gear to locate potential targets.

Pirates leave Somalia in the "mother ship," which looks like a fishing boat. They tow smaller speedboats.

Some Somali pirates carry long-range assault rifles and rocket-propelled grenades.

BurnTheShips

Are they pirates? Or something else?

Background to piracy

Piracy emerged following the collapse of the Somali government in 1991. With the government gone, European ships began dumping millions of barrels of toxic waste into the ocean off the Somali coast. At the same time, illegal trawlers began fishing Somalia's seas with an estimated $300 million of tuna, shrimp, and lobster being taken each year, depleting stocks previously available to local fishermen. Following the 2004 tsunami, hundreds of rusting barrels washed up on shore leaking toxic and nuclear waste with more than 300 people dying. [ 30 ] Through interception with speedboats, Somali fishermen tried to either dissuade the dumpers and trawlers or levy a "tax" on them as compensation. In an interview, Sugule Ali, one of the pirate leaders explained "We don't consider ourselves sea bandits. We consider sea bandits (to be) those who illegally fish and dump in our seas." Inevitably, due to economic conditions in Somalia or greed, some fishermen eventually took to piracy for their own financial benefit. [ 31 ]

BTS

oompa

again...their smaller speed boats/fishing long pangas are a joke!!!......I cant believe hot oil couldnt be used as they climb ladders and rope....they need to get midevil on their ass!.........oompa

BurnTheShips

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy_in_Somalia#Background_to_piracy

Some European and Asian companies have been accused by Somali pirates of dumping toxic waste containers off of the coast of Somalia. [ 40 ] [ 41 ] The effects of the toxic waste dumping were clear, following the massive tsunami of 2004, in the northern coastal sub-region of Hafun. Coastal populations "suffered strange rashes, nausea and malformed babies" and then discovered the cause in the wake of the tsunami, when "hundreds of the dumped and leaking barrels washed up on shore." [ 5 ]

Under Article 9(1)(d) of the Basel Convention on the Control of Transboundary Movements of Hazardous Wastes and Their Disposal, it is illegal for "any transboundary movement of hazardous wastes or other wastes: that results in deliberate disposal (e.g. dumping) of hazardous wastes or other wastes in contravention of this Convention and of general principles of international law". [ 42 ]

According to Nick Nuttall of the United Nations Environmental Programme, "Somalia has been used as a dumping ground for hazardous waste starting in the early 1990s, and continuing through the civil war there," and "European companies found it to be very cheap to get rid of the waste, costing as little as $2.50 a tonne, where waste disposal costs in Europe are something like $1000 a tonne." [ 40 ] [ 41 ]

Under Article 56(1)(b)(iii) of the Law of the Sea Convention:

"In the exclusive economic zone, the coastal State has jurisdiction as provided for in the relevant provisions of this Convention with regard to the protection and preservation of the marine environment".

Article 57 of the Convention in turn outlines the limit of that jurisdiction:

"The exclusive economic zone shall not extend beyond 200 nautical miles from the baselines from which the breadth of the territorial sea is measured". [ 43 ]

How Should We Deal With "Pirates"?

Background to piracy

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