Do You Think the Power Grid Will Go Down?

by cameo-d 33 Replies latest jw friends

  • Jim_TX
    Jim_TX

    Wow! Maybe this is a good time to hawk my 'new' product!

    I can provide (for a nominal fee) a system that recharges from solar power - and lights LED lights (or powers other small loads) in the evenings.

    This way, you won't be in the dark when blackouts occur.

    I've already been through 2 power outages - using my system - and all the neighborhood is dark - except for my home. Sorta like the Twilight Zone episode where the neighborhood goes powerless.

    Anyway... get your system now! Operators are standing by! Quantities are limited! Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states. Alaska and Hawaii not included.

    Regards,

    Jim TX

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    It happened in August 2003, and will happen again. Parts do break, major storms do play havoc with large sections of the power grid, and computer controls go down or run into operator error.

    But, anyone that thinks it's bad here ought to try going to the Middle East. They have even crappier systems, even crappier delivery systems, and blackouts like that are part of life. They are lucky if they go a whole week without a blackout--and such blackouts are likely to last longer because of difficulties installing new parts. So much for Allah--though I doubt Jehovah would do any better.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    Are we so pathetic that we can't handle living without power for a few days/weeks?

    Millions could die.

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20127001.300-space-storm-alert-90-seconds-from-catastrophe.html?full=true

    Before you laugh read the article, such a solar event happened in the 1800's.

    According to the NAS report, a severe space weather event in the US could induce ground currents that would knock out 300 key transformers within about 90 seconds, cutting off the power for more than 130 million people (see map). From that moment, the clock is ticking for America.

    First to go - immediately for some people - is drinkable water. Anyone living in a high-rise apartment, where water has to be pumped to reach them, would be cut off straight away. For the rest, drinking water will still come through the taps for maybe half a day. With no electricity to pump water from reservoirs, there is no more after that.

    There is simply no electrically powered transport: no trains, underground or overground. Our just-in-time culture for delivery networks may represent the pinnacle of efficiency, but it means that supermarket shelves would empty very quickly - delivery trucks could only keep running until their tanks ran out of fuel, and there is no electricity to pump any more from the underground tanks at filling stations.

    Back-up generators would run at pivotal sites - but only until their fuel ran out. For hospitals, that would mean about 72 hours of running a bare-bones, essential care only, service. After that, no more modern healthcare.

    72 hours of healthcare remaining

    The truly shocking finding is that this whole situation would not improve for months, maybe years: melted transformer hubs cannot be repaired, only replaced. "From the surveys I've done, you might have a few spare transformers around, but installing a new one takes a well-trained crew a week or more," says Kappenman. "A major electrical utility might have one suitably trained crew, maybe two."

    Within a month, then, the handful of spare transformers would be used up. The rest will have to be built to order, something that can take up to 12 months.

    Even when some systems are capable of receiving power again, there is no guarantee there will be any to deliver. Almost all natural gas and fuel pipelines require electricity to operate. Coal-fired power stations usually keep reserves to last 30 days, but with no transport systems running to bring more fuel, there will be no electricity in the second month.

    30 days of coal left

    Nuclear power stations wouldn't fare much better. They are programmed to shut down in the event of serious grid problems and are not allowed to restart until the power grid is up and running.

    With no power for heating, cooling or refrigeration systems, people could begin to die within days. There is immediate danger for those who rely on medication. Lose power to New Jersey, for instance, and you have lost a major centre of production of pharmaceuticals for the entire US. Perishable medications such as insulin will soon be in short supply. "In the US alone there are a million people with diabetes," Kappenman says. "Shut down production, distribution and storage and you put all those lives at risk in very short order."

    Help is not coming any time soon, either. If it is dark from the eastern seaboard to Chicago, some affected areas are hundreds, maybe thousands of miles away from anyone who might help. And those willing to help are likely to be ill-equipped to deal with the sheer scale of the disaster. "If a Carrington event happened now, it would be like a hurricane Katrina, but 10 times worse," says Paul Kintner, a plasma physicist at Cornell University in Ithaca, New York.

    In reality, it would be much worse than that. Hurricane Katrina's societal and economic impact has been measured at $81 billion to $125 billion. According to the NAS report, the impact of what it terms a "severe geomagnetic storm scenario" could be as high as $2 trillion. And that's just the first year after the storm. The NAS puts the recovery time at four to 10 years. It is questionable whether the US would ever bounce back.

    4-10 years to recover

    "I don't think the NAS report is scaremongering," says Mike Hapgood, who chairs the European Space Agency's space weather team. Green agrees. "Scientists are conservative by nature and this group is really thoughtful," he says. "This is a fair and balanced report."

    BTS

  • yknot
    yknot

    I haven't delved much into solar because of 2012 and the cost but I think it is good to be diversified.

    You can also sell electricity to local co-ops for some extra cash in the meantime.

  • parakeet
    parakeet

    Are we so pathetic that we can't handle living without power for a few days/weeks?

    It's not pathos, but feasibility, that makes living without power untenable. If the power fails in the winter, no water (if you have a well, as we do) because the pump runs on electricity. We have electric heat, so without that hypothermia and frostbite would get us fast. The water pipes would freeze and burst.

    If the power fails in the summer, then one could live, uncomfortably, in areas with very hot summers. You would still have no well water. If you're elderly, sick, or very young, you could die of heatstroke.

    If your home is set up to run on solar or wind generators (dependant on the weather), has a wood- or coal-burning stove, and a well with a handpump, I suppose it would be possible. But that technology is still too expensive for the average American.

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Power stations and the Grid: I work in the power production and distribution business for nuclear stations. There is no way that any hacker can get into a plant computer and affect plant safety or operating systems. The distribution grid , however, is somewhat vulnerable to hacking, but there are ways to get around lost tie lines through good load management and rerouting power supply. Such an attack would have to be very massive and well coordinated to cause any significant power disruptions regionally or nationally. Load dispatch crews will have back up control systems, including manual override operations. We need not give into all the hype and trust that experienced, educated, and well trained people have developed effective defensive methods to cope with such harassment. This does not mean that there may not be interruptions from time to time, but I would not expect it to last long.

    Regarding solar activity: It is possible that enough discharge from solar flares would induce a high enough emf to disrupt electrical and mainly communications systems ... it has happened before. Such events pass and life goes on. However, as our systems become more complex, more advanced, more dependent on electronic guidance, and increased numbers of systems, we could experience noticeable disruptions in the future. What I would worry more about is if the radical nut jobs set off a nuclear device which emits significant emf and toast some of our systems to an extent that it takes a long time to recover due to the logistics of replacing a large amount of transformers. That is one big reason I do not want any more nations getting their hands on nuclear weapons ... the risk that such weapons will be used by radical governments or radicals increases greatly as the availability increases.

  • BurnTheShips
  • Big Tex
    Big Tex
    Power stations and the Grid: I work in the power production and distribution business for nuclear stations. There is no way that any hacker can get into a plant computer and affect plant safety or operating systems. The distribution grid , however, is somewhat vulnerable to hacking, but there are ways to get around lost tie lines through good load management and rerouting power supply. Such an attack would have to be very massive and well coordinated to cause any significant power disruptions regionally or nationally. Load dispatch crews will have back up control systems, including manual override operations. We need not give into all the hype and trust that experienced, educated, and well trained people have developed effective defensive methods to cope with such harassment. This does not mean that there may not be interruptions from time to time, but I would not expect it to last long.

    Jim it's good to hear from you again. How are you? I hope you are well.

    Why do you think Chinese (at least from news reports) hacked into the power grid? To seek out vulnerabilities? Or to see what they could find? Or something else?

    Just my mindless opinion, but I do not think the power grid is in imminent danger of being brought down by an outside attack. Having said that, from what I have read, I think the grid is old, falling into disrepair and needs very badly to be updated.

    Any system, machine, computer, etc. can be brought down by nature. It is not a question of if, but when. Nature is, and most likely always will be, more poweful than man.

    Chris

  • compound complex
    compound complex

    Hi cameo,

    Whether from within - my messing up cyber-wise - or without - the inevitable you refer to - I realize that, while I don't rely on traditional media for information, I've become too dependent upon the internet and e-mail. I was down a couple days, as you know, and discovered that it was my doing. I had to uninstall an otherwise benign product that created more errors than solved. Within moments of removing the package, I was back online.

    I don't like how my disposition turns when I'm disconnected ...

    Am I alone?

    CoCo

  • cameo-d
    cameo-d

    Amazing...thank you for weighing in with that assuring information.

    This is not directed at you, but at man in general....I can't help but thinking about the times that man in his arrogance has been his own downfall.

    Bearing this in mind:

    "Such an attack would have to be very massive and well coordinated to cause any significant power disruptions regionally or nationally."

    This is what is really scary. When we know that something like this can be done because it has been planned and contrived to suit a purpose. It could very well be a plan to put unruly people into subjection; or a planned punishment for vocal uprising; or a way of regrouping and reclaiming control for a national loyalty.

    And like 9-11, it can always be blamed on some invisible scapegoats. Those who do not see deeply into the control aspects will always be blind-sided.

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