by Nellie 31 Replies latest jw friends
I classify myself as an agnostic who leans towards atheism. The argument "where did all this come from" is often used to support the existence of the Hebrew God Yahweh. If one could prove that a creator made all of this, it would show what a super intelligent and power being it is. It would not point to an entity as childish, petty and jealous as the one who manifests himself in scripture as Yahweh.
Don
Atheists belong to a non-prophet organization.
Doe! Good one.
Besty - Actually, it sounds like we are together on a lot of things. I've used the analogy that I feel like an alien who has just landed on this planet and doesn't know the language, layout or customs. Whereas I once believed that I knew it all (or a close proximity to it all), I now readily accept that I know NOTHING. I can't answer questions from a definitive point of view, and I'm not sure if I'll EVER feel comfortable thinking that I KNOW the answers to any of the big questions ever.
I'm ok with working and managing my own little world and as long as I live by the golden rule, whatever will be will be. In the interim, however, it is interesting to hear how other people think about things - hence my pondering question above.
I dont know who the big God is.
I cant make contact and I dont think he is in the bible.
I am pretty sure the benevolent God in the bible is Satin the devil, the resister the original
serpant.
He resisted keeping man dumb and in the dark.
He resisted the body of the gods elohim allowing all of mankind to be destroyed in the flood.
The evil god of the bible is jehovah. Aka Enhil.
You can see that in the book of Genesis and reading the old testament.
Something most christians never do.
If you cant see it check this out.
http://www.slavespecies.com/index.asp
I know who the little god of the earth is so I am a theist.
I dont know who the big god of universal creation and conciousness is, which makes me an
agnostic.
A year ago I was a total agnostic.
Today I am 50/50.
Jager - where are you in Florida? I'm in Fort Lauderdale.
Suppose I have a bunch of parts for a watch. I put them in a tumbler, and shake them. The chances of getting a working watch on the first try is almost zero. Almost being the key word. The second try is also a poor bet. But, if I have unlimited attempts, eventually it will hit. And I will have a perfectly working watch.
Hm...
Even though we may be on the same "side" here, I don't think this is a fair analogy.
In this case you are drawing, before hand, a very specific target: A working watch.
We all agree that in the universe is a complex place, but we are highly prejudiced
towards the idea that it "should" or it "needs" to be complex in the way we are used
to. Just because things turned out this way doesn't mean this is the only "interesting"
and "viable" way things could have turned out. We have no way to imagine what
complexity might be like in a different universe, and if there is one they can't imagine
ours.
Also, watch parts in a tumbler do not "tend" to interact in much of an interesting way.
They do not tend to screw themselves together, or align themselves into interacting
groups.
Chemicals, however, DO tend to interact and combine with each other in interesting
ways, especially when under extreme heat and pressure as can be found in the death
of a star.
And each step of interaction "tends" to build on it's own foundations, untill you get
chemical structures reproducing copies of themselves (life), then natural selection kicks
in, and things really get rolling on the "interesting" train.
And Natural Selection is the OPPOSITE of chance. It is way of things being that activly
SAVES that which is stable and useful (though without forsight)
Of course you can ask why things are such a way that chemicals interact in interesting
ways with each other, but that is pushing the question back a very significant step.
And once again, we have no idea how "else" an interesting universe and chemical laws
could look like.
[inkling]
A year ago I was a total agnostic.
Today I am 50/50.
I, uh....
Isn't is very definition of a "total" agnostic 50/50?
Unless you mean 50% agnostic, 50% theist, which would make you 25% agnostic?
Ow.
[inkling]
I find the vitriol of christians like snowbird entertaining in it's hypocracy.
S
Here is how I look at it. If there is a creator we are just his creation. He equipt this world to be self sufficient(sp) and IMO if there is one he is about as interested in us as a ford worker is in the pinto he made back in the 70's
Humans use the whole creation process as a way or means to servartude.
Think about all concepts of a creator follow the logic of if there is a creator there must be something he wants us to do and a certain way he wants us to serve him? Than that logic is answered by others ideas of rules and regs.
I've said before if there is a creator I dont believe him to be as petty, as the bible and most religions make him out to be.
