GB Member says....

by Kosonen 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Kosonen

  Samuel Herd, a Governing Body member says in his speach "The Miracle of Prayer":

  "God does not answer all prayers. Here are an example or two. Prayers for world peace, he does not answer them."

  http://www.jwforum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=1704

  (I was there actually and listened to his talk.) But even this statement is wrong, because apostle Paul urged us to pray for peace and said there will be a time when they will say Peace and Security!

  In 1 Timothy 2:1,2 we are urged to pray for peace: I therefore exhort, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, offerings of thanks, be made concerning all sorts of men, 2 concerning kings and all those who are in high station; in order that we may go on leading a calm and quiet life with full godly devotion and seriousness.

  A similar thought we find in Jeremiah 29:7 7 Also, seek the peace of the city to which I have caused YOU to go into exile, and pray in its behalf to Jehovah, for in its peace there will prove to be peace for YOU yourselves.
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  truthsetsonefree

  Very nice opinion they have of their God. Let's see, a politician prays for world peace. And Jehovah's response? "No way, you can't have that". Can't Herd see that that would make Jehovah an accomplice in the wickedness that takes place in this world?

  Isaac
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  moggy lover

  What concerns me is Herd's point no 2. He mentioned that all prayers must be made "in Jesus' name"....Right?

  Then I would like to know how an average rank and file Watchtower follower can pray "in Jesus name" when at the same Jesus is not the mediator for that person. Jesus, remember, as far as Watchtower theology is concerned, is the mediator only for the "anointed".

  The marvel of praying "in Jesus name" only arises when it is acknowledged that He IS the Mediator. Indeed that text which proclaims Jesus as the Mediator between God and men, is referring to prayer. [1 Tim 2:5, but see verses 1-5]
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  LouBelle

  yeah, but moggy, remember, that by the great crowds association with the 144 000, Jesus would be inclined to hear their prayers and take it before Jah....

  .....same token he may not be inclined - guess it depends on his mood!
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  TheOldHippie

  I think you mix up two thoughts or "things". It is perfectly OK to pray for peace in a micro-sense, and as the verse reads, in order that Christians may lead a peaceful life, continuing in their worship, in other words pray that no obstacles be placed before them, that the decisions of the authorities may be favourable towards freedom of worship, that judicial renderings be positive towards their worship etc. But it is not OK to pray for peace in the macro-sence, in the sense that all people should suddenly come together in peace and harmony and live forever after in brotherly love ;-) because the Bible says that will not happen, it talks about Armageddon and big battles and many not being saved and nations opposing God - and praying for world peace as an arrangement coming from human beings would therefore be praying for something that God says is not going to happen, in effect praying that the contrary of what God's foreknowledge has seen, should take place in stead.

  So seen from the viewpoint of Herd, and seen from that take on the Bible, it makes sense. Micro towards macro.
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  WTWizard

  Basically, Jehovah never answers prayers that would unambiguously prove Himself any better than the Flying Spaghetti Monster. To take an example, just try praying for Jehovah to bring everyone in the world into the cancer within two literal hours, just before going out in field circus. I wonder how long it would take for Brother Hounder to take you back in the back room for a hounding. Such prayer would be within Jehovah's stated will (that none be destroyed), and it would solve the problem of children coming of age while others are being taught.

  It would also turn the heat up on Jehovah, which is something He has a miserable time taking. If Jehovah doesn't answer the prayer, either the religion is wrong, Jehovah cannot answer it, or He merely wants everyone to waste their whole lifetimes in a permanent "emergency". Either way, that Almighty Lowlife Scumbag is going to be embarrassed when His time is up and nothing happens.
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  dogon

  You ever notice that talking into a tin can to god and your crazy, take away the can and suddenly you are spiritual? Talking to god is a lot like talking to yourself.
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  steve2

  Macro-peace?Micro-peace?! People who pray should get off their butts and take responsibility for bringing about the things they're praying to god for.
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  minimus

  Old Hippie, what's your status as a JW?
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  keyser soze

  People who pray should get off their butts and take responsibility for bringing about the things they're praying to god for.

  But that would defeat the purpose of prayer, and religion in general. People don't need to be responsible as long as god is there to clean up their mess.