House votes to require pledges to the flag...problems coming the Witnesses' way? (page 3)

Hittman

So how to Jay Dubs protest the moment of silence? Hum?

parakeet

Gill: "This sort of experience is torture for school children!"

I grew up in the sixties, too, Blondie, but the pledge was big where I come from. I was the only kid in my class who wouldn't salute the flag, and was hissed at by teachers ("You could at least have saluted it on Veteran's Day") and called a commie and a nazi by my friendly classmates.

This Oklahoma ruling won't hold up because of the 1943 (thank you, Farkel) U.S. Supreme Court ruling.

To this day, I refuse to fly an American flag, salute the flag, or sing the national anthem, and it's not because it's a dub indoctrination holdover. I don't think it's fair or even useful to force children or adults to prove their patriotism.

Bullies come in all shapes and sizes -- the dubs, the fundies, and other wackos. I've been bullied enough in my life. I don't tolerate it anymore.

blondie

parakeet, I lived in a more "liberal" area, big demonstrations against the Vietnam war. Carried over into the classroom. Teachers were of the same thought. Only once was I put on the spot about it and it resulted in my class refusing to say the pledge, all 30 of them. That got the principal's attention and no student was required to do it. The teacher involved was chastised.

WTWizard

While I am in favor of anything that makes life more difficult for witlesses, I am not in favor of mandatory flag salute. If a person chooses not to salute the flag, that should be a personal decision. And, with this country headed down the path of signing onto the One World Totalitarian Government, there is good reason why one would not want to salute it.

How proud would you be to live in a country where possession of vitamin C or magnesium is a felony punishable by 25 years to life in prison? What about a country where you have to go to the doctor every six months, whether you need to or not, and they can check and see what medications you are "supposed" to take, and you can go to jail if you haven't taken your medication because you forgot, you couldn't afford it, or it didn't work? Or, a country where they can tell that you haven't gone to church last Sunday, so they put you in jail that Monday morning and force you to 25 years to life of church jail? Or, one where the only Internet sites are those that are pro-Establishment, and they go after anyone with dissident information as they do now for kiddie porn? That you can only post pro-USA or pro-One World Totalitarian Government comments on this forum, or you (and Simon) go to jail? Certainly, not something that would inspire me to salute the rag flag.

shopaholic

I think people should say the pledge as an act of respect to the country in which one currently resides. It simply means "Hey, while I'm in this country, I'll try to be a good citizen and uphold the values of this nation." Now if you don't agree with the values of the nation, then you don't have to say the pledge.

Anyway, I always wanted to say the pledge when I was a kid. I did it one time when I was first grade. It felt very liberating or maybe it was normalcy. When I was in elementary school, they said the pledge everyday and sang the national anthem once a month. I love the national anthem, especially at big sports events...."and the rockets red glare, the bombs bursting in air, gave proof through the night that our flag was still there"

Hittman

It simply means "Hey, while I'm in this country, I'll try to be a good citizen and uphold the values of this nation."

No, it says you're pledging your allegiance to a piece of cloth and the government it represents.

parakeet

blondie: "parakeet, I lived in a more "liberal" area, big demonstrations against the Vietnam war. Carried over into the classroom. Teachers were of the same thought. Only once was I put on the spot about it and it resulted in my class refusing to say the pledge, all 30 of them. That got the principal's attention and no student was required to do it. The teacher involved was chastised."

Your school sounds like a hoot! My family lived in the boondocks of the Pennsylvania anthracite region. In fact, our KH was only a few miles from Minersville, PA, the origin of the initial lawsuit involving a JW family and the flag salute (Minersville School Board v. Gobitas), which, in 1940, resulted in the initial U.S. Supreme Court ruling against dubs. War fervor was high then, and refusal to salute the flag was considered traitorous.

Only a few years later, in 1943, the Court reversed its ruling in the case of West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette.

Farkel

gregor,

:I was enrolled in 1st grade in 1951, just 8 yrs after this ruling but there was still huge stigma attached to the act of refusing to recite the pledge. Of course, the adults could easily avoid being in this situation, like showing up for a sporting event after the flag salute, etc. But we school children went through it every school day and I can't tell you how many times I was punched or prodded during the pledge, followed up by ridicule on the play ground afterwards. My school mates were the sons and daughters of WWII vets. As the anti-communist cold war progressed through the fifties it got worse and worse. Then we were given "new light" and told to not stand for the national anthem. That was almost worse than the flag pledge.

I have pretty much the same story. I was in first grade in 1954 and through all of grade school, the pledge was said every single morning. Even in High School I remember in 1963 as a 10th grader, the pledge was said every Monday morning.

It was a tough time to be a JW.

Farkel

Bubblie

The pledge is a big thing down here in the south. We say it at political events for the Democratic Women's Club. It is no big deal to stand and say it for me. Don't remember saying it in school since the drugs I took during the sixties have made me loose some of my memories.

Kit

parakeet

Bubblie, I know you hate to be a thread killer, so I'll kill this one for you. Don't say thanks -- you'll wind up killing the thread again!

House votes to require pledges to the flag...problems coming the Witnesses' way?

Share this