Straight intellectualizing cannot lead to belief or faith in God !

by caliber 46 Replies latest jw friends

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    caliber,

    I don't disagree with facts. I disagree with the sophistic, rhetorical abuse of "logic" (which precisely falls into the category of "intellectualisation", even though it is poor intellectualisation imo) by which the theistic apologist infers from facts to an "intelligent" maker or designer.

    The flaw is obvious. It extrapolates from one limited field of observation (human craftsmanship and industry, where artefacts are indeed "designed" and "made" by external "intelligence" and "action") to everything, extending a "reasonable conclusion" far beyond its area of validity, in spite of overwhelming evidence that "intelligent design" is not the way things work outside of the sphere of human activity... to modern theists, the structure and form of clouds, mountains, rivers, trees, animals, constellations are no longer "designed" and "made" but the result of the free interplay of "things" and "forces"; even human language is not the product of "intelligent design" in that sense: nobody ever sat down to design and build the English language with its vocabulary and grammar "rules". Human intelligence was implied of course, but internally, in a gradual, collective, and mostly unthought process of structuration.

    But, somehow, the pattern of craftsmanship/industry must leap over those huge areas of observation where it obviously does not apply, to be posited as THE only valid explanation of everything... as the creator gods of old were warriors or genitors, potters or builders, the modern "God" is an architect or designer. The same anthropomorphism is at work, Gods in our image -- and a very reduced image of man at that, man as craftsman...

    The appeal to "faith" at this point is the sugar-coating that helps intelligence to swallow the highly unlikely -- or, using other metaphors, to close its eyes and jump over the huge logical gap, to bend and twist "straight" intellectualising ... I don't despise "faith" at all (quite to the contrary) but I think it can work in better ways than interfering with the intellect in "shortcut" fashion.

  • Anti-Christ
    Anti-Christ

    the eye, DNA, the brain, water construction.. IMO if you look at these facts there is no way to disagree

    there had to be a higher mind controlling and creating these things !

    Caliber

    Only the illusion of design. Natural selection is the designer of the eye, the brain,etc... One must understand first what natural selection is before one reject it.

  • quietlyleaving
    quietlyleaving

    Imo if we see human life as accidental it opens up more of the potential that the "proofs" for a creator hint at.

  • caliber
    caliber

    Here is a partial quote from author Louise L. Hay which I personally believe very beneficial to life , health

    happiness , peace of mind and purpose .

    For us to become whole and healthy we must balance the body , mind and spirit. We need to take care of our bodies.
    We need to have positive mental attitude about ourselves and life. And we need to have a strong spiritual connection.
    When these three things are balanced , we rejoice in living . No doctor or health practitioner can give us this unless we choose
    to take part in our healing process .

    Caliber

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Caliber

    You do the same w the spiritual as you do w the physical, you jump to your conclusion from it.If, in fact there is spirit, if we are spirit (which i do believe), that does nor automatically give support to the existence of your god. Firstly, there have been, and are many gods purported to have existed. Spirit could point to any number of them, or it could poin to none of them, as in the case of a spiritual atheist.. Buddhist mediation has been proven scientifically to bring happiness. Meditating buddhist monks have been observed in lab settings, their brains in states of happiness. Buddism can be either theist, or atheist.

    S

  • caliber
    caliber
    Spirit could point to any number of them, or it could poin to none of them, as in the case of a spiritual atheist.. Buddhist mediation has been proven scientifically to bring happiness. Meditating Buddhist monks have been observed in lab settings, their brains in states of happiness. Buddism can be either theist, or atheist.... Satanus

    I agree there may be happiness and a sense spirit found in any mediatation... if I seem to insinuated otherwise I

    apologize... I was only seeking to end this post on an upbeat positive note .....sorry ! ...

    When these three things are balanced , we rejoice in living (mind, body, spirit ) ......Cal

    PEACE- BALANCE

    Caliber

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    I see. I wrongly thought that you WERE insinuating:(

    S

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