can we do a list of jw things that go "beyond what is written?".....

by oompa 49 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • oompa
    oompa

    quirky i think tatoos are ok now...........oompa....check out this article where is says it is an ancient art....and i love the quote from the article i used in such a WT manner!

    ***

    and thank olin...good job.....i bet so few dubs know this.....and if he is not our mediator, then why do we pray in jesus name????....he is our go-between but how many ways does WT teach he is our (annointed) mediator?

    1. S: (n) mediator,
    3. to settle by mediation mediated the dispute
    4. to bring about by conciliation mediated a settlement
    5. to be the medium for bringing about (a result), conveying (an object), communicating (information), etc. go-between, intermediator, intermediary, intercessor
  • halcyon
    halcyon

    What about the restriction against eating at a restaurant during an assembly, rather than bringing your own food? At one of the last meetings I ever went to, the brother stated: "Would we want to lose our privileges by going to a restaurant and disobeying the FDS's instructions?"

    And because it wasn't addressed above, I return to the restriction against going to bars. You don't want to be seen in a bar by a JW. Never mind that you're not drinking. Don't go to a bar at all, or you'll be interrogated.

  • oompa
    oompa
    halcyon: What about the restriction against eating at a restaurant during an assembly, rather than bringing your own food? At one of the last meetings I ever went to, the brother stated: "Would we want to lose our privileges by going to a restaurant and disobeying the FDS's instructions?"

    I do not think this is a WT teaching....just an opinionated nutcase elder.......but i could be wrong....elders??............oompa

    C'mon guys....there has got to be more than 32!

  • orangefatcat
    orangefatcat

    What a bunch of hogwash the G B is, the bible says there is one mediator between God and man and that is his son Jesus Christ.

    Jesus said no one comes to the Father except through me. That is in 1 Timothy 2:5,6

    Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life .Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved

    Now where oh where does it say it is only for the remnant I think these guys are smoken pot or on crack cocaine because they sure as heck have their own interpretation of scripture that is only unique to them.

    orangefatcat

  • Olin Moyles Ghost
    Olin Moyles Ghost

    A few more:

    • Disfellowshipping for gambling. The Society rationalizes this on the basis of Paul's inclusion of "greedy persons" in his 1 Cor 5 litany of people to DF. This is a bit of a stretch. If you put a few bucks on the Super Bowl, does that mean you're greedy? Again, this is the type of area where the Watchtower takes away an adult's ability to use his conscience.
    • Banning vasectomies. There's a QFR in a 1999 Watchtower that basically says that JWs should not undergo sterilization procedures such as vasectomies absent extraordinary circumstances. The scriptural support for this position is almost non-existent. This is not a DF-ing offense, but it is a basis for removal of "privileges" in the congregation.
    • Banning certain sex acts between marriage mates. Forgive me if this has already been mentioned. But even though it's difficult to get DF'd for engaging in certain sex acts (I think we all know the acts to which I'm referring) with your mate, these acts are still categorically condemned in the Watchtower. Again, there's zero scriptural support for condemning any consensual sexual acts between a married couple. None.
    • Requiring overseers to maintain "the national average" in field service. Paul explicitly set forth the qualifications for elders and deacons/ministerial servants in Timothy and Titus. These qualifications did not include door-to-door ministry and most certainly did not include a quota of hours to be met. But it is well-known that if a MS/elder remains below the 10-hour per month mark, he is liable to be deleted if he doesn't increase his share in this "life saving" work.
    • Not allowing women to carry microphones or work behind the literature counter. While Paul expressly forbids women from speaking in church (1 Cor. 14:34-35), he says nothing about their carrying microphones or handing out literature. But in the organization, women are not given these roles absent highly unusual circumstances (i.e., no "qualified brothers"). Perhaps a reason is that these jobs allow a man to be "tested as to fitness first" before being appointed as a MS...but that's still no reason to exclude women. The simple fact is that there's no scriptural basis for denying these jobs to women in the congregation.
    • Forbidding voting in political elections. Some may say that the 1999 (I think) QFR article on voting makes this a conscience matter. Even if this is the case (and I'm not convinced), if a JW made it known that he voted for one or more candidates in a political election he would lose any congregational "privileges" he once had (and may be marked/reproved/DF'd/DA'd). The JW support for this is Jesus' statement about being "no part of the world," the fact that Jesus refused the Jews' attempt to make him king, and that Jesus refused Satan's offer of all the kingdoms of the world. But they ignore the OT examples of faithful servants of God who held political roles in pagan governments (e.g., Joseph in Egypt, Daniel in Babylon). It's interesting how they pick and choose which OT accounts to apply to modern times. Anyway, the fact is that someone is going to get elected whether we vote or not. Just like JWs get involved in the Judicial Branch of government by fighting for their rights in the courts, there is no scriptural basis for forbidding Christians from exercising their right to influence the Executive and Legislative branches of government by voting.
  • oompa
    oompa

    more goodies from olin moyles, and just go to his post for the clear explanations:

    33. Disfellowshipping for gambling. ...............for sure beyond what is written...God himself "got in on some action" because the apostles PRAYED before they cast lots to choose a replacment for judas

  • Banning vasectomies.....i know this is not on the boods as a df....but am pretty sure privleges are no longer removed for this....if it is i will add this to the list

    • Banning certain sex acts between marriage mates........................... believe me, if this was still a true ban or fobbiden it would make the list, but i do not believe they have a rule on this anymore

    34.Requiring overseers to maintain "the national average" in field service.................................yep that qualifies, and i had never even thought about that....very good scriptual support there olin and good logic

    35. Not allowing women to carry microphones or work behind the literature counter (or for women to be on the Governing Body)...............................i added the last part, because a woman could be on it and never "teach" and she would not have to be "silent" when they meet.........and how stupid they have nothing they can do but clean the hall when they can frikkin do every single thing the brothers do and side by side them at a quick-build!

    36.Forbidding voting in political elections...........................i agree and if loss of privleges or being "marked" in some way if you do then it is defininatley going beyond things written (great point about Joseph and Daniel btw)

  • megaflower
    megaflower

    The WTS can change position on anything at anytime because, "THE LIGHT GETS BRIGHTER AND BRIGHTER".

  • oompa
    oompa

    later

  • oompa
    oompa

    Witness Rules and Teachings that go "beyond what is written" in the Bible

    1. hatred of men's facial hair and sideburns ...................................(privileges withheld if you have too much or wrong style) also length of men's hair

    2. clothing requirements................. ties/jackets/suits mandatory for ministry/talks/privileges....and sisters can freeze there ass of rather than wear a hilliary clinton pantsuit or they can not be on the school

    3. birthday celebration forbidden....the anniversary of our child's birth is the same importance as wedding anniversary

    4. claiming Divine Name it was in the new testament when no manuscript contains it (that's kinda a big one)

    5. allowing blood fractions when blood was required to be poured on the ground...never mind that the instructions were only about eating blood and that the only way they could "abstain" from blood was to not eat it or use it in pagan worship (odd that the priests used it so much in the worship of jehovah...barf)...medical use should be perfectly fine...i wonder if the fractions have dirt in it?

    6. higher education is a bad thing, even if you live at home...yet high school is ok if you live at home...(and believe me...there is not any difference between the fun stuff you can do at both..but college is more likely to open your mind...not just your zipper)

    7. masturbation is an evil sin

    8. not celebrating/clapping when someone is repentant and reinstated.......................................true stupid non biblical rule but nobody in bible was reinstated i don't think

    9. restricting privileges when someone is reinstated................................the prodigal son was celebrated and welcomed back in full (from bonnzo)

    10. Christianity (through one) organization instead of a way of life...............that passes for me

    11. Salvation is dependent upon belonging to the JW denomination.....................ditto

    12. The Watchtower organization speaks for and is controlled by Jehovah, (thereby equating the organization with God himself)........first half only

    13.The "faithful and discreet slave" is an "anointed class" (rather than each individual Christian who shows himself or herself to be responsible and obedient to Christ.).........ditto and a big one on the first half only......see the second part can not be proven by bible either...only mentioned once

    14. The early Christians were led by a governing body..................................VERY good one.....

    15. (oops...i had blood issue in here twice so i need one for this space!)

    16. Jesus appointed the "anointed remnant" as his true church in 1919..................................................ditto, not provable by bible alone

    (17.) The so-called "anointed" class (actually, the governing body) is God's channel and prophet.........I think this passes but not sure...scriptures?

    18. The Bible cannot be correctly understood without the aid of WT literature and programs.................true, beyond scriptural proof

    19. Jesus returned in 1914....................(i split this one in two) big one too....since no dates are in bible....this can not be proven using only bible

    20. and is "invisibly present" since then................ditto, but god is hard to prove too since invisible...some could argue his return is visible from bible

    (21.) Individual JWs must not read Bible-related publications produced by non-WT sources.....................................i think so, any scripture even close?...i suppose there were warnings about foreign gods/practices though

    22. Arrogantly promoting the pretense that the JWs maintain higher standards than any other religion and proclaiming publicly that all other churches are members of Babylon the Great..................................passes but barely cause.....well their standard are proven to be pretty darn high...but even IDENTYFYING Babylon TG as false religion can not be proven from the bible, much less that all other religions are part of it

    23.The "congregation" of Matthew 18:17 is "the body of elders." (Matthew 18:17) 17 If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector. footnote Or, "to the ecclesia (assembly)." Gr., teiek·kle·si´ai;........................................................big ditto....how can you go from congregation/assembly to "body of elders"?..................way beyond.....

    24. Not "partaking" at the "memorial".......DITTO!....if you mean that not all can partake...in bible all in attendance partook, and passed in order to partake.....however everyone desiring everlasting life is to eat jesus bod and drink his blud (ick).....so the whole thing is messed up 25.Secret kangaroo courts..........not mentioned in bible or WT!.........but, Ditto! if you mean that three man judicial committee's not biblical for judging and punishing the sheep....there may be precedent with elders in jerusalem meeting to make a rule....but no precedent for "judicial committee" 26. Jesus is only the mediator to the 144,000...everyone else is a companion and lives by association with the chosen people...........i believe this makes the cut, but am not certain on the scripture they use for that, nor the main wt's that state that....so somebody post that evidence here please........we should prove that one is not in bible in anyway, and that WT says it is so

    27. Permitting (and encouraging) child baptism. Every baptism in the NT involved "men and women." Jesus was about 30 years old when he was baptized..........................ditto and one of my pet peeves for sure!....WT even acknowledges that in first century only adults were baptised...(yet they say they try so hard to imitate the 1st century christian congo)...often the carnage families are often put to is due to child baptism

    28. Discouraging/forbidding school sports and extra-curricular activities. This is done under the auspices of 1 Cor. 15:33 (bad associations), but what scriptural precedent is there for classifying all non-JWs (or even all non-christians, for that matter) as bad association? Jesus associated with sinners and non-believers...................this make the list....even if it was an all jw school they would not even have sports because they claim it "promotes a competitive nature".....WTF is wrong with that either????

    29.Requiring a confession of certain types of sins to a group of elders. The NT is clear that forgiveness only comes through Christ's sacrifice. There's a passage in James that says 'if there is anyone sick among you, let him call the older men...' The WT interprets this to mean that "spiritually sick" JWs have to confess really bad sins (fornication, drunkenness, stealing, etc.) to elders. But that's a bit of a stretch. In Ray Franz's second book, he discusses a disagreement that he had with Uncle Fred about this scripture. Ray pointed out that the Greek word translated "sick" literally meant physically sick. This makes sense to me, because at the time James wrote his letter, the "older men" still had gifts of the spirit--such as healing. Thus, if someone was sick he could go to one of these faith-healing elders! But even if James meant "spiritually sick," there's still nothing in that scripture that says "people who commit certain types of sins have to confess them to a group of men in order to be forgiven." It just isn't there.......................................absolutely on the list!.....masturbation gets a lot of confession...i wish every dub would go ever time they have an immoral thought since it just like real adultery anyway.....the elders would have no time for any public meetings.......

    30. Disfellowshipping for smoking. While I agree that it's a rotten habit, there's no Biblical basis for casting someone out of the congregation for smoking...........................definitely beyond what is written... and i bet there are many other things they df for that are not biblical

    31. Allowing women to comment and give parts on meetings. Paul is explicit and clear in 1 Cor. 14:34-35 that women are to be silent in church. Period. This is an example of how JWs pick and choose which parts of the Bible to take literally. When Paul says to "abstain from blood," the JWs say that means to completely abstain; but for some reason, when Paul says for women to be silent in church, they don't think that means to be completely silent. Inconsistent much?.............................................yes...hot damm i had not thought of that!...........how do they explain the "silent" part???...I Will look it up

    33. Disfellowshipping for gambling. ...............for sure beyond what is written...God himself "got in on some action" because the apostles PRAYED before they cast lots to choose a replacement for judas

    34.Requiring overseers to maintain "the national average" in field service.................................yep that qualifies, and i had never even thought about that....very good scriptural support there olin and good logic

    35. Not allowing women to carry microphones or work behind the literature counter (or for women to be on the Governing Body)...............................i added the last part, because a woman could be on it and never "teach" and she would not have to be "silent" when they meet.........and how stupid they have nothing they can do but clean the hall when they can frikkin do every single thing the brothers do and side by side them at a quick-build!

    36.Forbidding voting in political elections...........................i agree and if loss of privileges or being "marked" in some way if you do then it is definitely going beyond things written (great point about Joseph and Daniel btw)

    37. Bible truths revealed as a light getting brighter and brighter..................................what a biggie! (was just reminded of this by Megaflower)..........this teaching is not found in the bible.......it clearly goes beyond what is written

    what about this one?......... Forbidding attendance and participation at other churches.......based on OT scriptures, this one may not pass, but i am open...it may not be a bible issue

  • Olin Moyles Ghost
    Olin Moyles Ghost

    OOmpa,

    Banning certain sex acts between marriage mates........................... believe me, if this was still a true ban or fobbiden it would make the list, but i do not believe they have a rule on this anymore

    Believe it or not, that's still the rule! (Don't tell Mrs. Oompa). A couple years back (probably in the 2007 time frame) there was a study article that explaining that certain non-coital sex acts between teenagers were still "porneia" and a DF-ing offense. There was a footnote in that article that said something to this effect: 'for more information about these acts between marriage partners, please see this 1983 WT article.' The 1983 (I think) article basically says that these acts are sinful, and if it's known that you do them, then you don't get privileges...and if you "promote" these acts (whatever that means), then you could possibly be DF'd.

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