by jw_uncovered 41 Replies latest jw friends
There are Roman documents that support the existence of Jesus
peacefulpete says: "no there isn't"
Except for all the Roman documents that support the existence of Jesus right?
Reminds me a funny Donall and Conall episode:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d4FHHf00pY&t=239s&ab_channel=LutheranSatire
Proving or disproving the physical existence of Jesus is really only a distraction. Anyone that becomes a believer now does it as a result of a personal spiritual experience, not because they got to shake hands with Jesus.
I believe Jesus physically existed as described in the Bible...but even if he didn't, what would that change? My entire spiritual experience is not based on his physical existence or lack of it.
LeatherCrop....Believe it or not, I feel that your comment is closer to that of earliest Christians than the later attempts at euhemerism.
Sea Breeze, you have been here for years and have had this broken down for you a number of times. Why pretend you can defend this position?
Josephus wrote about lot's of things. For example, he seems to have thought Vespasian was foretold in the Jewish writings, and here I include someone else's thoughts:
Quote: "Josephus seems to have thought Emperor Vespasian was the Messiah. He writes in Jewish Wars:
"What more than all else incited them [the Jews] to the [1st Roman] war was an ambiguous oracle ... found in their sacred scriptures, to the effect that at that time one from their country would become ruler of the world. This they understood to mean someone of their own race, and many of their wise men went astray in their interpretation of it. The oracle, however, in reality signified the sovereignty of Vespasian who was proclaimed Emperor on Jewish soil" — Josephus' Jewish War 6.312-13. (End of qutote)"
Interestingly, many conclude that Vespasian was actually proclaimed Emperor when he and his army had reached Egypt.
When we examine the writings of ancient people, we can't conclude events were as well-known as they may be today, when radio and TV etc. can make events widely known. Even so opinions can vary.
The references to Jesus are all much later than the time he was supposed to have lived, a Century or more, and are only repeating the already established Mythology about him, not reporting historical facts.
I am 100% convinced the Jesus of the Gospels is an entirely a Mythical, Fictional Figure, until I see irrefutable evidence to the contrary.
If there was a man the mythos was based upon, perhaps one living in the later years pre C.E, who was crucified, that is of no relevance to proving the mythical "Jesus".
As the Thread Title says, rightly, Jesus never existed !
There's a huge difference between the idea that the Biblical character of Jesus was based on a man who really did exist, and the idea that the Biblical character of Jesus really did exist. A man named Jesus could have preached religious messages and gathered a following and become controversial and been executed for treason due to false accusations from bitter religious leaders. The additional claim that this man was also god made flesh, and that the whole thing was his plan from the start, requires far more than testimonials.
Jesus is, after all, not the only person whom others claimed was divine. It's not a rare find; many ancient men claimed divinity and/or were granted such by others. Heck, it happens today.
Agreed Tonus, somewhat, there is NO contemporary evidence for a man named "Jesus" who would fit the base figure for the Myths,
Hence why I consider the Thread title to be spot on.
The additional claim that this man was also god made flesh, and that the whole thing was his plan from the start, requires far more than testimonials.
Tonus.
Exactly, we've crossed over into spiritual and mental territory when it comes to this subject.
"we've crossed over into spiritual and mental territory..............."
In other words belief based on faith, which has no basis in fact or reality.
in other words belief based on faith, which has no basis in fact or reality.
hehehe.... every single emotion experienced and every single thought is spiritual and mental...good luck arguing that they aren't real...
