Judicial Committee formed, can they do that with only one "witness"?

by BonaFide 45 Replies latest jw friends

  • BonaFide
    BonaFide

    I have started to read about cults with the book by Steve Hassan. I look over my shoulder at the library, no way in the world I will check it out or buy it and take it home. Thank you all for your recommendations.

    So at the last meeting with me with two elders, they said they had two witnesses, said that now a second sister had come forward saying I had had inappropriate contact with her as well two years ago. But I called the sister from the parking lot, we are still friends, and she said no way did she confess, there is nothing to confess.

    I knew the elders were bluffing to make me confess, so I didnt budge. They grilled me for over an hour, and if it weren't for me having notes printed out from all of you I would have caved and confessed to "sin" just to get them to stop. They said the healing will start when I confess, I am withholding God's spirit on the congregation, etc etc. Then they said they are forming a judicial committee, and they are going to contact all the sisters I have known, since in the congregation everyone knows who is spending time with who. They are even going to call the branch office of the country I served in to see if there are old accusations. They are pretty angry. It sort of gets me mad because the married P.O. is always hugging the young single girls in my hall and saying "Give me some love." He even kisses them. But if I say anything about that, I am toast.

    But they really didnt have two witnesses. So, all you eldes and ex-elders, can they form a judicial committee? According to my understand of the Flock book, page 118-120 says you need two witnesses. But could they FORM a committee and then bring out the ONE witness and then some hearsay, for example, they printed out some of my text messages to a sister, in which we joked about sex.

    They are making me out to be a predator, and a bad guy, when in reality, I have tried my whole life and never committed fornication, even when under temptation I tried hard to resist and didnt go all the way.

    This is killing me, can they do that? I know when I was a C.O., I would sort of push the system a little to help those being unjustly treated, and I would also push the system if I thought someone was getting away with serious sins. Guess I deserve this maybe.

    Thanks for the posts telling me to get out. I am trying to figure out what to do, and all of you are helping me a lot. If this had happened last year to me, I would have killed myself.

    I tried to visit another Hall last night, maybe to fade from there. No way. The elders know me and called me by name and asked if I wanted to join their congregation to help. They talked about me being the P.O. and how they need so much help and can I at least give a talk in their hall, etc etc. Its like there is nowhere to go to fade.

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    Are you really bona-fide or bona-head.

  • Octarine Prince
    Octarine Prince

    This, quite possibly, may be the most trouble a virgin has gotten into since Joan d'Arc.

  • S EIGHT
    S EIGHT

    If you were a CO and have been asked to be a PO why are you asking such basic questions?

    Fake perhaps?

    If you are, dont waste our time my friend, there are far more serious subjects to debate on here.

    S8

  • yknot
    yknot

    Hey right now your main focus is getting these jacka$$es off your case, if the other KH wants you.....go become a PO.

    Unless you think getting railroaded into a DFing and a long drawn out appeal process etc is the best way to fade.

    Once you move your publishing card, those Elders take over the case....

    A fade plan can always be reworked, once you get out of the hotseat and back on solid ground!

    Imagine how pissed it would make your little lynch mob too for you to be out of their grasp!

  • SnakesInTheTower
    SnakesInTheTower

    SHORT ANSWER: YES

    LONG ANSWER: (because I am not known for short answers):

    BF:

    But could they FORM a committee and then bring out the ONE witness and then some hearsay, for example, they printed out some of my text messages to a sister, in which we joked about sex.

    They can and they will. It is just a matter of time. If not this time, next time.

    I have been both on both sides of the JC table when this has happened. Back in 1991, as a young MS and regular pioneer, I was accused of lying (aka "being double-tongued"). Their bases for the accusation? Initially, one sister accusing me of lying about my field service time. Since one witness was not enough, they gathered her pioneer partner at the time...now they had TWO witnesses and shook her down. But even that was shaky, so the BOE convened a shadow JC (meaning they did not announce to all gathered that it really was a JC)..consisting of the entire BOE, all of the regular pioneers EXCEPT the two elderly pioneers who would have backed me to the end. It was a kangaroo court, everything already preordained. They asked each of the pioneer sisters there (including the initial two accusers) "Do you think Brother {Snakes} lied? YES or NO?" Any answer that came out of their mouths that was not YES or NO was immediately shut down by the Secretary and asked again. All of the sisters said YES. Thus, they were able to gather the necessary "two witnesses" against me. The BOE then narrowed down to 3 elders (the official JC) and met with me privately. They told me I was being deleted as an MS, as a regular pioneer, and it would be unannounced (private) reproof ..except for the announcements of my deletion.... the only restriction (because if it is a JC, and you are found guilty, there is always a restriction)...I could not offer public prayer for one month. Just enough to also derail my MTS and Bethel applications.... this followed me for over 3 years and I started over in the sister congo....where eventually I was reappointed MS, pioneer, then elder, temp bethel and eventually went to MTS... too bad I didnt learn back in 1991 about this cult what I know now..but I digress.

    turns out years later that a couple of those sisters told me they were pressured ahead of time into saying they thought I was lying..or it was implied they too would lose their "privilege" of pioneering...and their husbands "privileges" would also be called into question.

    In more recent years, I was an elder on a JC that was formed against a so-called "apostate". (Ironic, eh?) Of course, the person was DF, and the appeals committee upheld the decision. As I have since told this person, the PO and his daddy had it all planned out in advance..and that the CO told them that all the elders had to be on the JC...so as to weed out any possible apostates on the BOE...so no chance I could NOT be on the JC.

    I tell these two stories (again) because BF...and you should know this from your MTS training...once a PO or a BOE or a CO has you in their sights, there is rarely a way to wiggle out. And if by some chance you do wiggle out of this one...they will be on you like white on rice to get you again....eventually...they will get you. And the fact that you were an elder, a MTS grad, a CO, a missionary....no way in hell are you getting out of this.... they will pin the entire blame on you for the behavior, even if the sisters were the agressors in the relationships....

    You are SOL (as far as the Borg is concerned) my friend. Mess with em if you like..but it is inevitable... Enjoy your soon to be newfound freedom....PM me...lets talk...

    Snakes ()

  • DJ_Q
    DJ_Q

    I think he is a bone head. Maybe a troll.

    Hmmmm......

    DJ_Q

  • Darklighter
    Darklighter

    I never made it to elder (flaked out while an MS) but my father was an elder the entire time I was growing up, and I read his "flock book" behind his back because I wanted to be up on procedure and and all the do's/dont's so I got fairly knoweledgeable about Watchtower Law. But, I'm still young, so I'm certainly no authority, and I'm sure you know a whole lot more about it than I do... THAT SAID, here's my 2 cents: I've always had the impresson they can form a commitee for any reason they want (read: haul your ass in the back room), but they just can't take any disciplinary action. The whole point is to get you to confess to something. Just like the Pharisees at Luke 11:53,54. Stand your ground. And don't confess to them even if you did do something "bad". These men have no authority over you. Only God does.

    Bonafide, I empathize with your situation (I'm "still in" myself), admire your courage, and wish you all the best.

    Hang in there. Keep your spirits up. Remember this is not the end, but the beginning.

    EDIT: And as to whether or not he's a troll. I'll be honest I have my suspicions. But for now I prefer the innocent untill proven guilty approach. Unlike the WT.

  • SnakesInTheTower
    SnakesInTheTower

    DJ:

    I think he is a bone head. Maybe a troll.

    i thought so too at first about being a troll.......

    in his most recent PM, he sent me a list of some of the names from his class. I believe I met BF back when he attended MTS...

    I believe BF is either legit or a better actor than the fellow who was two characters in one here awhile back...

    I will be talking to him this weekend....

    Snakes ()

  • Amha·’aret
    Amha·’aret
    So at the last meeting with me with two elders, they said they had two witnesses, said that now a second sister had come forward saying I had had inappropriate contact with her as well two years ago. But I called the sister from the parking lot, we are still friends, and she said no way did she confess, there is nothing to confess.

    Can't you bring this person as your own "witness", prove that you caught them in a lie but say you won't take it further if they leave you the hell alone? Then fade away without any hassle. You could quote all those scrips about liars not inheriting God's Kingdom, Jehovah hating deception and on and on til they surrender. Have it all prepared and make it go on for as long as you can manage to listen to yourself!

    Turn it around on them and see what happens.

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