JFK Assasination

by Big Tex 51 Replies latest social current

Big Tex

I am now a reformed conspiracy theorist. I have been wrong, I see it clearly now.
Lee Harvey Oswald, acting alone, fired 3 bullets on November 22, 1963 wounding Gov. Connally and killing President Kennedy. I now believe in the single bullet theory. And I now believe Jack Ruby, acting alone, shot and killed Oswald.
When I was a kid, growing up, I was fascinated by the JFK assasination. In the 70's and into the 80's I read and watched anything I could on the subject. I was convinced then that Oswald, while not totally innocent, probably wasn't the murderer, or at the very least, the only assasin.
But lately, the past few years, have changed my opinion. The first was watching a very well put together program called "Unsolved History" that showed unequivocally, that it was indeed possible for one bullet to strike Kennedy, exit from his throat, hit Connally, embed itself in his leg and then emerge virtually pristine. I did not think this was possible because, among other things, I believed all those books that said, and their diagrams showed, Connally sat exactly at the same height as Kennedy and exactly in front. This was a lie.
Connally sat in by 6 inches and his jump seat was 3 inches lower. Further, the program made the point that when Connally was hit, he wasn't sitting fully erect, he was turned to his right putting his body in the exact alignment with the path of the bullet.
The second thing to change my mind was reading Vincent Bugliosi's book "Reclaiming History". I highly recommend it. The book begins with an exacting, extremely thorough, and precise timeline from Kennedy awakening in his Fort Worth hotel room to the burial of Oswald. That he was so detailed, and I have never read another book that did this sort of involved timeline involving anyone associated with the events, helped me look at the people involved as what they were -- real human beings. Not one dimensional characters to be moved around a conspiracy chess board. The beginning of the book is sometimes moving, sometimes poignant and completely believable in establishing Oswald's movements.
I have never read the Warren Report, and I think I need to do so if possible. Bugliosi brought up several points from the Warren Commission that I did not knew existed, such as the questioning of Oswald by the Dallas police. I distinctly remember several books saying there was no record of his questioning. Yet Bugliosi quotes the homicide chief and Oswald, apparently, verbatim. Or that there were multiple eyewitnesses to Oswald's murder of Dallas policeman J.D. Tippitt. Again, I remember one book very clearly saying there were no witnesses. I could go on and on.
I feel angry that I was duped, not by the government, but by a bunch of shysters hawking their books lying and twisting facts to suit their own theories.
Finally Bugliosi points out that, on the third and fatal shot, Kennedy's actually moved forward noticeably, before falling backward indicating the shot came from behind. As well as the exit would clearly visible in frame 312 and 313 of the Zapruder film on the side of his head. Not the back where it would have been if he had been shot from the grassy knoll (as I always had thought).
So anyway, I'm now a recovered JFK conspiracy buff. I now know who did it and why. I don't have every question answered, but the weight of evidence is overwhelming on the side of the lone nut firing 3 shots. If you started out believing the Warren Commission, you were smarter than me.
Chris
donny

I too was into the conspiracy thing back in the day as it was more exciting to believe than the standard government explanation. Today I cannot think of any conspiracy theory that I believe as most of them are too preposterous. The ones who come up with these ideas are usually folks on the far right or far left of the political spectrum where emotion and idealogy blinds them to common sense.
kwintestal

So where do you stand on 9-11 being an inside job?
Kwin
Witness 007

Yeah I'm with you....Ex-Conspiracy nut thanks to Oliver Stone...I saw the Presidents car on youtube abd yes the Governors seat was strangely positioned, so one bullet could do it. many facts have fallen apart.
Also 9/11 debunked.....the U.S government did not do it!
james_woods

Wow, just wow, Big Tex.
Are you just trying to prepare us for the announcement that you think there is nothing but some used chemical drums in Area 51, or that they really did land on the moon back in 1969? Next you will be letting us know that Russell was not a Mason?
I pretty much gave up on the conspiricy theory stuff years ago too. One thing I always did wonder about, though - on the three-bullet versus four-bullet theory; did they hunt for the brass and count them up there in the school book depositary? Can't much imagine Oswald taking time to pick them up, but leaving the rifle behind. Of course, that always leaves the mystery gunman on the grassy knoll.
Were you going to the KH when Kennedy was shot? I was - about 13 or 14 years old, and of course the Congregation Overseer gave a serious talk on how this was a sure sign of the end times as part of the Friday night meeting. Then, by the Sunday meeting Oswald had been shot, and everybody was just sure the big A was upon us.
Then it all blew over, and we started the next 50 years of our lives without a peep from their war-god.
Big Tex

So where do you stand on 9-11 being an inside job?
Well actually that was one of the things that started to change my outlook. I've read God knows how many threads here and reading some of the most inane nonsense being spouted about the World Trade Center and the surrounding buildings being dynamited. And those folks just could not be reasoned with.
I would shake my head at them and think how deluded they were. And then it hit me one day that I wasn't any better.
In his book Bugliosi relates a story about a legal conference he was at once. He asked the audience how many thought there was a conspiracy in the JFK assasination. 80% or more raised their hands. He then asked how many had read a book or watched a program that proposed some conspiracy theory. Same number held up their hands. Then he asked how many had read the Warren Report. Only a handful had.
His point was the folly in making a decision when listening to only one side. I realized I was guilty of that as well, having relied on these authors to tell me what the Warren Commission said without checking it out.
Are you just trying to prepare us for the announcement that you think there is nothing but some used chemical drums in Area 51, or that they really did land on the moon back in 1969? Next you will be letting us know that Russell was not a Mason?
Whoa. Dude. You're blowing my mind. I'm totaling tripping now.
One thing I always did wonder about, though - on the three-bullet versus four-bullet theory; did they hunt for the brass and count them up there in the school book depositary? Can't much imagine Oswald taking time to pick them up, but leaving the rifle behind. Of course, that always leaves the mystery gunman on the grassy knoll.
Nah. Three bullets fired, three shells found in the 6th floor window. No shells found anywhere else that day. Another thing I didn't know, was that the majority of witnesses in Dealey Plaza claimed to hear 3 shots (or less).
Were you going to the KH when Kennedy was shot? I was - about 13 or 14 years old, and of course the Congregation Overseer gave a serious talk on how this was a sure sign of the end times as part of the Friday night meeting. Then, by the Sunday meeting Oswald had been shot, and everybody was just sure the big A was upon us.
No I didn't join until I was 9. Now Nina was, and she tells me exactly as you do. They lived in California at the time and were convinced this was IT.
Any day now . . . . .
SixofNine

Welcome to the fold, Tex :)
My "gut" take on the whole thing, even prior to that show, was that it wasn't a conspiracy, simply because if it was, it hadn't unraveled even the tiniest bit since then.
But I have to admit, I had thoughts about the ability to shoot like that, motive, etc... that kept me from feeling too strongly one way or the other.
When I did the show, I was a bit surprised to find that it was pretty obvious, even though they didn't expressly say it, that the historian hosting the show, and Gary Mack, the enthusiast who runs the 8th floor exhibit, all had a working belief that Oswald acted alone.
Have you seen the entire Unsolved History set on the assasination by now, Chris? I think they've done like 4 or 5 episodes since that first one that I was part of (obviously you've seen the one that deconstructs the gun angles). I think they really did a great job and used good honest, even scientific, techniques in their reconstructions.
I've got Bugliosi's book sitting on my kitchen table, but haven't opened it. damn that is a big book!! You're a better man than me if you've read it.
Big Tex

Have you seen the entire Unsolved History set on the assasination by now, Chris? I think they've done like 4 or 5 episodes since that first one that I was part of (obviously you've seen the one that deconstructs the gun angles). I think they really did a great job and used good honest, even scientific, techniques in their reconstructions.
No I didn't know they made that many. I've only seen 2 or 3. Not sure now. But yeah those are fantastic shows. There was one that showed Oswald could have descended 4 flights of stairs in 90 seconds without being winded as well as walk the route from his boarding house to the Tippitt shooting in the timeframe set by the Warren Commission. It was gruesome but the show on firing the bullet from the same distance into soft tissue was fascinating as well. Actually I love the whole series. It's always a stop down for me when I see "Unsolved History" on. You got me hooked.
I've got Bugliosi's book sitting on my kitchen table, but haven't opened it. damn that is a big book!! You're a better man than me if you've read it.
The first part, 4 Days in November, is the best and most well written as well. If you do nothing else, read that section.
I found my mind wandering when Bugliosi went over and over the Mafia and CIA theories. But hey, you can't say he wasn't thorough.
What I see now is the assasination was the perfect storm of blind luck and random chance with two loser wanna-bes in the middle changing history.
But if you really want conspiracy, let's talk RFK and MLK!
james_woods

I do have a friend who is sort of escaping from Scientology, but who harbors every conspiricy theory known to man (except maybe for the moon landing thing). Which is why I say "sort of".
He not only believes the CIA killed Kennedy under orders from LBJ, but that the Dallas Cowboys have never had a fair call in a post-season game since it happened - because Kennedy was killed in Dallas.
You ought to hear him get started on UFOs, too.
Satanus

Your move from conspiracy to accepting the more or less standard version is truly interesting. I haven't read so much of either sides arguments. I guess, i am agnostic on the jfk assassination. It is one of the saddest events of this century, considering all the secondary developments that it snuffed.

"About the Author

Vincent Bugliosi received his law degree in 1964. In his career at the Los Angeles County District Attorney's office, he successfully prosecuted 105 out of 106 felony jury trials, including 21 murder convictions without a single loss. His most famous trial, the Charles Manson case, became the basis of his true-crime classic, Helter Skelter, the biggest selling true-crime book in publishing history. Two of Bugliosi's other true-crime books-And the Sea Will Tell and Outrage-also reached #1 on the New York Times hardcover bestseller list. No other American true-crime writer has ever had more than one book that achieved this ranking. His latest book, Reclaiming History: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy, was also a New York Times bestseller, and is being made into a ten-part HBO miniseries, for which Tom Hanks will be a producer. Bugliosi lives with his wife of many years in Los Angeles."

Bugliosi also did a book on the chraging of w bush w murder.

S

JFK Assasination

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