The end of the gentile times.... (page 3)

bennyk

Yes; the 01. October 1907 WT article was reprinted in December 1913.

The quote from 1907 is found in the Reprints on page 4067

I suppose a good question to ask them would be, if Jesus was inspecting for true followers, and the bible students were the ones ‘keeping awake’ to the times back then, why is it that both Russell, and Rutherford at the time of inspection believed that Jesus had been ruling for 40 years…..??

Neither of them believed Jesus presence started in 1914 at that time, and Russell never did. How can that be found ‘keeping awake’ for the 'master', when in fact, they didn’t even know he had arrived…??/

digderidoo

Good points so far, thanks.

I'm off to bed in a bit so will check in tomorrow.

Paul

bennyk

Mr. Majestic writes:

I suppose a good question to ask them would be, if Jesus was inspecting for true followers, and the bible students were the ones ‘keeping awake’ to the times back then, why is it that both Russell, and Rutherford at the time of inspection believed that Jesus had been ruling for 40 years…..??
Neither of them believed Jesus presence started in 1914 at that time, and Russell never did. How can that be found ‘keeping awake’…??/

And yet the Greatest Man book states (chapters 131 and/or 132) that when Jesus arrived in 1914, only his true disciples saw it. So I guess that "proves" that Russell, Rutherford, and the Bible Students (later called JW's) were not his true disciples. The Society continued to teach that the Second Parousia began in 1874 until at least 1929 (Prophecy book).

Mr. Majestic

And yet the Greatest Man book states (chapters 131 and/or 132) that when Jesus arrived in 1914, only his true disciples saw it. So I guess that "proves" that Russell, Rutherford, and the Bible Students (later called JW's) were not his true disciples. The Society continued to teach that the Second Parousia began in 1874 until at least 1929 (Prophecy book).

Well I am really sorry but your ‘Greatest Man’ book has to be wrong because on the front cover of my book ‘the Harp of God’ it says that it is "Proof Conclusive", and then goes onto say that they were waiting for Jesus in 1874.

Hope4Others

Did the Watchtower predict 1914 or 1874?

Current Watchtower publications are not transparent about the history of their interpretation of 1914. Both before and after 1914 it was consistently stated that Jesus rulership started in 1874. It is now claimed that prior to 1914 the Watchtower was saying that this was the date for Jesus rulership and presence to occur. This simply is not true, as the following quotes show.

present since October 1874

kingly office

1878

Studies in Scriptures Series IV

presence

1874 A.D.

Prophecy

1874 onward

Our Lord's Return

Russell and Rutherford believed that Jesus invisible presence started in 1874 and rulership in 1878. The end of the Gentile times in 1914 was to signify God's Kingdom re-starting visible rulership on earth, starting with Armageddon. It was not until Golden Age 1930 p.503 that Rutherford for the first time stated that Christ's return and "presence" were 1914, instead of 1874. This was not mentioned again until 1943. It has only been from 1943 onwards that 1914 has been consistently stated to be the start of the Last Days and the beginning of Jesus presence and rulership.

Knowing this, it is eye opening to find Watchtower articles claiming that the Organization always understood that 1914 was the year that began Jesus presence and rulership.

h4o

studier

Just to let you know....I've been watching that other board and have been waiting for someone with more knowledge than myself to respond. Unfortunately my 'bible chronology' is 'just slightly' (or extremely however you want to put it) under developed! :p Just so you know that your efforts are not wasted. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

studier

Mr. Majestic

Hi studier.

Have you got a link so that we could go and have a look. Be interested to see what’s being said……..

studier

http://fray.slate.com/discuss/forums/2/1455643/ShowThread.aspx

Hope that works!

studier

Mary

"....But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble

...."------Watchtower July 15, 1894

First of all, the Gentile Times obviously began in 70 CE when the Romans invaded Jerusalem. If you read Luke 21:20-24) it's obvious that did NOT start when the first temple was destroyed in 587 BCE:

"....Furthermore, when YOU see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies (which happened in 66 CE), then know that the desolating of her has drawn near. 21 Then let those in Ju·de´a begin fleeing to the mountains (which happened during 66 CE - 70 CE), and let those in the midst of her withdraw (dito), and let those in the country places not enter into her;(dito) 22 because these are days for meting out justice, that all the things written may be fulfilled. 23 Woe to the pregnant women and the ones suckling a baby in those days! For there will be great necessity upon the land and wrath on this people; 24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword (which happened in 70 CE) and be led captive into all the nations (which happened in 70 CE) and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled (oh! suddenly, this is somehow referring to '607 BCE'?)

The key words here are: "Jerusalem will be trampled on...." Will be. Future tense. It had not happened yet. Therefore, logically, if it had not happened yet and if you take the bible at face value, it is clear and obvious that this "trampling" most certainly did not begin centuries earlier. It's that simple.

Here's a quote they might be interested in reading:

The Watchtower August 15, 1904, p.3415:

Question
. — If the ‘Times of the Gentiles’ can be changed as suggested in the July Tower, so that the anarchy will follow 1914 A.D., instead of preceding it, might not similar changes be made in respect to all the various lines of prophetic time proof set forth in Millennial Dawn, Vols. II and III?
Answer. — You are entirely in error. Not a figure, not a date, not a prophecy is in any sense or degree affected by the article to which you refer. Indeed the harmony and unity of the whole is the more fully demonstrated… The harmony of the prophetic periods of the correctness of out Bible chronology. They fit together like the cog-wheels of a perfect machine. To change the chronology even one year would destroy all this harmony , — so accurately are the various proofs drawn together in the parallels between the Jewish and Gospel ages...
The Watchtower Reprints, September 15, 1901, p. 2876: "... The culmination of the trouble in October, 1914, is clearly marked in the Scriptures ; and we are bound therefore to expect a beginning of that severe trouble not later than 1910; — with severe spasms between now and then...."
The Time Is at Hand (SS-2), 1907, p. 101: "...
The ‘battle of the great day of God Almighty’ (Rev. 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth’s present rulership, is already commenced."
The WT never predicted anything correctly. In the years leading up to 1914, they taught that Jesus had returned invisibly in 1874 and that 1914 would bring Armageddon.

The end of the gentile times....

Did the Watchtower predict 1914 or 1874?

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