Jeremiah and the 70 years. Jewish exile or Babylonian rule?

by digderidoo 103 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Outlaw,

    JCanon..You are a character..How can anyone not like you?..LOL!!..But..Your not the Messiah.....My board bud Shelby/AGuest,knows him personally.....She has seen him and talks to him......That may seem strange,but she believes what she says..........

    Well, I have to say that one of the funniest moments on this Board is when Messiah JCanon battled it out for Messiahship with another poster who also lived too far from his pharmacy.

    It reminded me of the time one of the JW's in my group study leapt up one evening and demanded that I do homage to her as she was the Queen Of Sheba. I asked her to go to the kitchen and put the kettle on and we would have a cup of tea together very soon. She simply replied, 'all right then', disappeared into the kitchen and started banging all the pots and pans as she looked for the kettle, which incidentally was right in front of her.

    Medication turned her back into Janet.

    HS

  • Awakened at Gilead
    Awakened at Gilead

    Paul,

    Man this thread is a doozy... JCanon, Obves, and scholar on the same thread... so you obviously are getting nowwhere with them Laughing Mutley...

    And Outlaw and dawg on the other hand are trying to inject some sanity to the thread...

    Cut your losses, Paul... shoot the thread Clint Eastwoodand start over!

    (Thanks OUTLAW for lending the GIFs)

    A@G

  • JCanon
    JCanon

    AnnO'Maly: Thanks for your position and feedback on this topic. You said:

    The existing chronology works fine. Don't mend what aint broke.

    My take on this is that Josephus says there are 70 years from the last deportation to the 1st of Cyrus. So when you sayd, "Don't mend what ain't broke" you are only talking about the NB records that have survived. It is not "broke" because it was "fixed" and revised. So first off, I'd tell you that ALL THE RECORDS reflecting this chronology are from the Persian Period or the Seleucid Period. The SK400 and the VAT4956, key documents supporting this chronology are from the Persian Period. So why would we just accept "copies" which in and of itself establishes clear suspicion of revisionism, when there are clear contradictions to what the Bible says? It seems as though, in a pinch, you like many others accept the secular records and history over the Bible. That's your choice.

    However, in the context of JW doctrine and belief that the Bible's history must be true, this history is "broke" if you have Josephus and the Bible introducing more years into this timeline than the NB records show.

    So I would again, remind everyone that the JWs find themselves trapped in regard to the 70 years because of 2 CHRONICLES 36:20 which says:

    "Those remaining from the sword" is a specific reference to the Jews who had been down in Egypt and were not killed by Nebuchadnezzar. Josephus specifically claims it was these from Egypt who were deported in year 23 of Nebuchadnezzar, a fact JWs run from! They don't want witnesses thinking the Jews last deported were these from Egypt since it is all too clear they likely would have traveled back through Judea on their way to Babylon. JWs desperately need the land to be completely desolated as of the fall of Jerusalem!! This is in direct contradiction to Jer. 44:14 and 28 which says indeed those "escaping from the sword" would return to Judea. Obviously, on their way to Babylon! In year 23 of Nebuchadnezzar, to make up the group of the last deportees. Even to, it is clear once removed off the land the land is now empty and now the land is to lay desolated to fulfill seventy years. The servitude of these last deportees to Nebuchadnezzar and "his sons" include Darius the Mede who was the grandson of Nebuchadnezzar. That is why it specifically says the "royalty of Persia", that is Cyrus the PERSIAN vs Darius the MEDE. Cyrus comes to rule after Darius the Mede rules for 6 years. Note, no "nations" are mentioned here either. This is about the last deportees serving 70 years while the land lays "desolated" which is what JEREMIAH prophesied.

    In all fairness, can't you see this is too straightforward for someone who believes the Bible to twist into anything else? That this simply confirms a literal 70 years so the land can keep its sabbaths must occur in connection with the last deportation? YOU are asking us, in this discussion, imagining we're all in the living room having some drinks and pizza, all smart XJWs and ex-pioneers, and you want some of us to ignore this? We could if we were impressed with Babylonian copied documents or the establishment's decision to validate this timeline. But, this is a clear contradiction with scripture, regardless of how many records there are. This is a direct incompatibility. So I have to side with the WTS, even though they date the 70 years from year 18 rather than 23, that there is no alternative based on 2 Chronicles other than introducing these 70 years prior to the Cyrus coming to the throne. When you see Josephus, a Jewish historian who also gives a secular reference to the same 70 years for the last deportees and the same desolation, then you have a clear-cut contradiction between records. Somebody revised their records. So I don't honestly see how you can avoid that? Nor do I think you can honestly blame me or JWs for misreading 2 Chronicles regarding these 70 years, especially when Josephus is doing exactly the same thing.

    So to me, this shifts the burden of proof onto you and the documents you claim establish rather convincingly or irrefutably this reduced Babylonian timeline. When you start that process, it becomes immediately clear there are problems. COJ though uses the VAT4956 as the "most important document" he discusses in establishing quite clearly year 37 of Nebuchadnezzar in 568 BCE. But JWs are correct in dismissing this document as potentially incompetent and fraudulent, since it comes from the wrong period. But things really turn around when it is clear this DIARY FORMAT was just a camouflage to hide references to the original chronology. Thus you have two critical "errors" in Lines 13 and 18 where the moon passes closely by two stars, beta-Virginis and Sigma-Leonis, a great place to measure precise distances. Both lines give the lunar position for 511 BCE. I have a video that explains the astronomy for you somewhat if you care to watch:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69ptRtpWEiw

    So from my perspective, YOU and others are AVOIDING looking at the issue of your own supportive documents. You like referring to them as a "mountain of confirmed evidence" but you haven't really confirmed them. As in the case of the VAT4956, COJ doesn't address the double-dating issue for 511 BCE. And how can he? It's there and that's it! He can claim they are just "errors" or scribal glosses if he wants to, but who will believe that? The scribes always noted when the text was broken or unreadable. So why are they inserting their own ideas? And why is it so astronoimcally correct? We have no choice but to consider 511 BCE as a potential alternative and original date. When we test that against the 455 BCE chronology for the 1st of Cyrus, it checks out! Another coincidence? For YOU perhaps, you are convinced so many people can't be wrong about the 587 BCE chronology for so long. But can you honestly expect me to IGNORE this?

    You can't, no more than you can blame anybody for reading 2 Chronicles 36:20 and presuming the land was desolate for a full 70 years, especially when the Jews thought the same thing! C'mon!!! We're not pushing hard here. Just HONESTLY noting there are two timelines here. Honestly noting the VAT4956 gives you a choice between 511 and 568BCE (not really, but...). Noting that the precise 70 years from year 23 of Nebuchadnezzar fits the absolute RELATIVE CHRONOLOGY when year 37 falls in 511 BCE.

    It works too well. It's too obvious. Too many things line up too perfectly for us not to suddenly be smart enough to call this for what it is. The Seleucids PANICKED when they were faced with destroying all those original astronomical texts, and some Jewish astronomers devised a means to create a fake document, a diary with over 140 references to a specific year, the perfect place to hide secret referenes to the original chronology, during the reign of Nebuchadenzzar so that the Bible's chronology was supported. They then copied these documents dozens of times for some reason. We have 5 copies or fragments extant of the SK400 alone! These "diaries" were the ideal place to "hide in plain sight" the original chronology. That is what this does. That is not such a complex concept, I don't think. It explains the double dating. Problem is, it also will preempt every other document that aligns with the current timeline. It establishes absolutely another timeline that is more relevant to comparison with the Bible than the 568 BCE timeline. But when that comparison is made, the Bible confirms the accuracy of both texts, that is 541 BCE for year 7 in the SK400 and year 511 BCE for year 37 in the VAT4956.

    JUST LOOK AT IT FROM MY POINT OF VIEW. That is, what I have to IGNORE to just think the 568 BCE is even remotely reliable. You can't just ask me to pretend I'm a moron, basically! I know that works for a lot of people here as I've been called a moron or "Bibleidiot" before. But... c'mon. The WTS has a VALID reason for introducing the 70-year period per the BIBLE. There's nothing that can change that. Josephus introduces the same 70 years but 4-5 years later. You can't change that. You can't ignore it. But COJ is trying to. That's what weakens his views. He avoids the hard issues. COJ doesn't but people here are pretending 2 Chronicles doesn't exists in this discussion of the 70 years.

    2 Chronicles leaves NO CHOICE regarding a 70-year desolation period after the fall of Jerusalem, specifically beginning with the last deportation. You can't blame those who believe the Bible for reading this text for what it says, in which case, we then aggressively challenge your timeline and secular evidence and now that we have, your evidence has fallen apart and become "hostile witnesses" against this timeline, as the VAT4956 now requires the redating back to 511 BCE for year 37. REQUIRES because the cryptic date will always preempt the superficial cover-up date. It's the ideal document to confirm the revision AND to reset the absolute dating. It's amazing.

    The only way the academic world can get past this evidence is to CLOSE THEIR EYES and ignore it. Try to suppress it. They won't discuss it.

    Thanks, again, Ann, for your kind contribution. And yes, Furuli is a disaster!!! Unfortunately, I get a bad reputation for being in the same class as he is with finding alternative dating in these texts. So he does make things a bit worse for me, but he's waaaay off. I have my astrographs and just deal with what's in them. He is clueless about astronomy, as I used to be but I've gotten better.

    Cheers,

    JC

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    (((HS)))..My Bud!..LOL!!..........A&G..This place is hilarious!..LOL!!............Laughing Mutley...OUTLAW

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Medication turned her back into Janet.

    hillary_step, shame on you!!! You promised you would never tell anyone about my "Queen of Sheba incident" !!!

    Billy the Ex-Janet

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Now Scholar takes the cake, in a sort of eyes wide shut way. There is something very Vyvyan-like about Scholar and his ceaseless ability to recover from theological death.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgbOS2Ny2_Q&feature=related

    HS

  • JCanon
    JCanon

    Thanks OUTLAW:

    JCanon..You are a character..How can anyone not like you?..LOL!!..But..Your not the Messiah

    At this point I'm not trying to convince anyone I'm the messiah. If I really am, then 1,440,000 sealed ones are already my followers and the "two witnesses" are aware of me. But that should be clear by the WTS subliminal art showing the sleeping black child's face in the hand of Jesus. So this is not my unilateral delusion. It involves apostate WTS and their clear understanding that the scriptures if interpreted especially as they do applies to modern events would point to a black, gay, prodigal son messiah.

    For instance, in the Rich Man and Lazarus, the WTS claims THEY are Lazarus and the Rich Man is Christendom!!! In the parable of the vineyard workers, they claim they are the 11th hour workers and the murmuring 1st-hour workers are Christendom. It doesn't work, since the 1st-hour workers are given a penny for their work, but still, this is an organization that reads into these parables as prophetic parables.

    So they couldn't miss the reference to Lazarus' sores being licked by "dogs" since they know specifically the reference to a dog in the Bible is. It's in their Insight volume that its a sodomizer of passive males. Male temple prostitutes, likely castrasted would dress up as women and prostitute themselves. Otherwise normal "straight men" would sodomize them from behind very much in the fashion dogs have intercourse, so they got labelled a a "dog." But this academically would link Lazarus to homosexuality. They might have ignored it, except they understood the reference in Revelation of his being "impaled in Sodom" was also a clear reference to the messiah dying or being killed by his homosexuality. They understood this. And they reflected it in their sublliminal art as all often do Freemasons do.

    So there is a lot more going on here and so whether or not I'm the messiah is beside the point. You still have exegetical references in the Bible suggesting the messiah would return in the flesh as the prodigal son, who happens to be black and gay. The WTS and the Writing Committee didn't miss this. Besides a group of anointed ones clearly were pointing this out to them as well and believed this had to be the right interpretation. I guess the WTS tolerated this secondary belief by some of the anointed and held out "just in case" it would come true up to apparently the solstice of 1992 when these anointed ones expected the messiah and when the UN shut them down somehow in some way. But the "transmigration" occurred 3-1/2 days later on the 25th. Fred Franz in the meantime, died on the 23rd.

    So ignore me PESONALLY as the messiah, but admit that the Bible does suggest the messiah is a former sinner. Joshua at Zech 3 has "befouled garments" that must be changed. And he his told his former sins are forgiven. You can see the prodigal son coming and being given new robes. He is given a banquet! Clearly messianic. So YOU might ignore this thinking it is just a parable in the Bible about forgiveness, but not the WTS!! And not anyone of the anointed like myself. We can see the clear meaning and the messianic reference.

    Further, how come the eagles surround a CARCASS in reference to Jesus' body? Why is the glorious Michael the Archangel considered a CARCASS and how can the eagles surround him if he's a spirit? And why do they, when they see the "sign of the son of man" BEAT THEMSELVES IN LAMENTATION? Why are they crying as if the messiah is DEAD?

    HELLLOOOOO!!! How about, since Jesus can't use his perfect body since he gave it in sacrifice and doesn't need to be born again in a perfect body, he desides to use one of his followers' body at the second coming? Someone chosen by Jehovah for him to become flesh again. It is not just good enough to materialize, he has to actually be the "son of man", so he combines with some level of human DNA whenever he appears in the flesh. The first time it was just an ovum, the second time a full-grown adult. The difference being the first time he is perfect, the second time impefect. But that is symbolized by the second WAVE OFFERING with leaven!

    So you see, for a really, really smart Bible ex-pioneer person like me, all this comes together for a clear picture of what the second coming is really supposed to be. Further it is really obvious to me it makes more sense Jesus is on the earth with the 144,000 (actually 1,440,000) for the 1000-year rule! I mean, how can Jesus and the Bride Class effectively manage things on earth if they are up in heaven sipping on pina coladas all day? They need to be ON THE EARTH like Jesus was ON THE EARTH before. That is the whole concept of the SECOND coming. He appears in the flesh as a human twice! Once as a sacrifice, and once as a king-priest to rule for 1000 years. He must be on the earth.

    Then you have the chronology. My area of expertise. You gonna try to tell me 1992 isn't the cross-matched dating for when the second coming is supposed to occur. Don't even try it. But it's simple. 1947 is the easy way to date everything in the Bible. 1947 ends 1290 days after the "great tribulation" which was the HOLOCAUST, the messiah must arrive 45 years later, which is mid 70th week. The messiah arrives to fulfill the 70th week each time, both at the first and second coming. The 70th week the first time was from 29-36 CE for the period of 455BCE to 36 CE. We count down 4 periods of 490 years, 1960 years to 1996 and the 70th week of the second coming is 1989-1996! Simple. Christ's first and last Lord's Supper to "end gift and sacrifice" dates his coming within a year of April 6, 1993. SIMPLE. ABSOLUTE. EASY. No worry about when Babylon fell or Jerusalem fell and all those revisions. Easy dating to the same year for more recent and less contested events.

    But 1992 is when my "experience" occurred. I did have the life of the "prodigal son" I was a male prostitute and a cross-dresser, as embarrassing as that may be to admit, but all that is right there in the Bible! The Bible shows Lazarus' weakness was for dogs, which are straight men who like drag queens and that was basically me. I didnt' date "gay" males, I liked straight men, or bisexual men. I lived as a woman for three years because I was gender dysphoric and transgendered at the time. So when I see the Bible matching Isa 53 with the Etipian EUNUCH it is clear that that has to relate to ME. OR, if not me, some other black, effeminate/gay male. IT'S ALL THERE.

    So, I'm pretty much convinced I MUST be the messiah. Even if I wanted to deny it and as amazing as it is, my experience, my talking with Jehovah personally, it fits all the Bible's chronology and everything else, even the details of my former sexual preference for straight men.

    But forget about all that for now. You said it was HARD NOT TO LIKE ME!!! Does that mean you're a fan? Ha, ha!!!

    What is significant about that is that it will fulfill prophecy. Because after I've closed to the door to the kingdom, which I have as of May 2008, something will happen that will convince those who knew me personally to suddenly believe I'm truly the messiah. They will remind me how they "ate in front of me and I taught in their broad ways." Well I teach here and at other XJW news groups! That's the fulfillment of the "broadways" in which I teach. But obviously my messsage wasn't bought. Still, these are people who knew me and apparently LIKED ME because they want to play the FRIENDSHIP CARD to try and save their necks after its too late!!!

    25 when once the householder has got up and locked the door, and YOU start to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Sir, open to us.’ But in answer he will say to YOU , ‘I do not know where YOU are from.’ 26 Then YOU will start saying, ‘We ate and drank in front of you, and you taught in our broad ways.’ 27 But he will speak and say to YOU , ‘I do not know where YOU are from. Get away from me, all YOU workers of unrighteousness!’

    See? This proves when Christ arrives that he will be friendly or have friends who are apostates who liked him and knew him rather personally in that setting. Personally enough to remind him of how "we go way back!" to try to save their necks when it is clear that he is the messiah. So I don't know if the great tribulation or the destruction of the WTS and the Illuminati agencies in the UN will trigger this, or if something miraculous in connection with me will convince everybody, but at one point it will be clear I am indeed the prophesied messiah and then you will say, "Hey, remember me?" SEE! So I'm amused by your comment that I'm "likable" but not to be taken seriously. But that definitely will fulfill prophecy. That has to be fulfilled as well. Christ has to be known by some who tolerate him and apparently like him but pay no attention to his message UNTIL...something!

    Now, I'm supposed to be revealed to the WORLD at some point, but I don't need to do any miracles. The anointed will may need to come forward to show themselves. So if you see over a million followers of mine claiming they know and believe I'm the messiah and the proclaim their loyalty to me, then maybe THAT will convince all here that all this is REAL! Plus there is the issue of those survivors from the 1st Century including Paul and John with all those ancient records. If THEY show up, then that really will be a show! So maybe that will make some say, "Okay, NOW I believe now that I see other people believe since I can't think for myself and I like following the crowd..." But it will be too late.

    So likely a lot of the people here will end up surviving Armageddon and dying of old age and will miss out on the millennium. I discuss who survives Armageddon in my new video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZNCO_E1ufs

    Anyway, thanks. I have no control over my life and I'm here for a public display. I'm just letting things happen as prophesied per God's schedule.

    JC

  • JCanon
    JCanon

    Hi Hillary...

    Well, I have to say that one of the funniest moments on this Board is when Messiah JCanon battled it out for Messiahship with another poster who also lived too far from his pharmacy.

    Sorry, there is no easy way out here. Apart from my claim you still have the doctrine of the second coming. When it is supposed to occur. Does he arrive in the flesh again or not. Visible or invisible. A big appearance where "every eye" of the entire world sees him, or just "every eye" of the select eagels the anointed, the "two witnesses"?

    Then there is the WAVE OFFERINGS, the second one is WITH LEAVEN, the first without. Unleavened bread is a no-brainer for a sinless BODY of the Christ. So leavened bread is also a no-brainer for an imperfect body. That tells you right there Christ will not only appear in the flesh again but in an ordinary body. Are you going to INGORE THAT?

    Look at Joshua at Zech 3. Clearly messianic. But he has befouled garments. He is told his "sins" are forgiven and he is given new robes. Apologists have to claim these are not his PERSONAL SINS but represent the sins of others, even though it clearly says his sins are forgiven. But this, for someone claiming Christ returns in the flesh in an imperfect body, tends to prove that! Only this is not the first-coming messiah but the second!

    So what am I going to do with that interpretation, HIllary? Are you saying I'm misreading the scripture that shows the messiah with former sins and needing new robes?

    Plus when the "eagles" surround the CARCASS of the messiah at Matthew 24, how can that happen if he's a glorious spirit? And why call him a CARCASS? (Raising my hand!!! me! me!) I know! Because he's the imperfect prodigal son who is a dead messiah for a while. That's why those who see the "sign of the son of man" which also shows him as a dead child "beat themselves in lamentation."

    So that all works out for the prodigal son messiah, just like the prodigal son being given new robes and a banquet, which relates to the kingdom since the second coming is likened to a wedding feast given by a father for his son. Am I suppose to ignore the obvious connection here?

    Plus it is clear others have come to the SAME interpretation, including the WTS who shows the sleeping black child's face in the hand of Jesus, clearly an image provided form heaven and thus that other anointed ones not only saw but UNDERSTOOD.

    http://www.geocities.com/siaxares/signson001jpg.JPG

    MEDICATION? Yeah right! I sure do need a LOT of medication to ignore all these scriptures and subliminal art by the WTS as well! Where do you think the idea of the sleeping black child came from that they put in the hand of the messiah? It is clear the sleeping black child is linked to the messiah. Is that my IMAGINATION? Are you going to tell me my brain tumor is making me see this sleeping black child in the hand of Jesus that so many other people just HAPPEN to be seeing also?

    No way. Call me crazy, but the Bible dates the second coming specifically in 1992, cross-matched by three prophecies in that regard, so if he is to arrive he would have in 1992. Or else the Bible is not true. He as to arrive 45 years after the Jews return to Palestine which was in 1947. NON-NEGOTIABLE. So if I were not looking in the mirror, I'd be looking for another prodigal son messiah.

    Besides, maybe I at some point might think this is ALL A DREAM. It is rather overwhelming to be in this position. But there is that incident with the photo of the "sign of the son of man." Clearly a miracle. A girl out o the blue publicly claims she believes I'm the messiah? It was an uproar at H20! Both of us got banned because they thought I had made her up. We ended up talking privately and when the 7th year of the sign of the son of man on December 26th came up in 1998, we both figured, since Jehovah was into SEVEN, big time, that maybe some miraculous sign would appear again. So since she is a skyscape photographer, she arranges to photograph the skies for 3 hours during the time I told her the sign appeared the last time. She didn't know what to expect. But that date and time was given to her by me based upon what happened before. It was a bit wierd for me because all my other followers are strictly underground. After the photos were taken and she was so excited, even saying she thought she saw angels flying back and forth in the clouds, she sends me the photos for that 3-hour late afternoon. Then there it was! The sleeping black child's face. The eagle. I couldn't believe it! The rest is history.

    So there is NO WAY this is not a miracle. And I immediately recognized that imagery and connected to the sleeping black face in the Revelation Book. C'mon!! Now if I really am the messiah then, of course, Jehovah might have provided that sign for me to show to others to confirm I'm really the messiah, or that God understands the messiah is black and the prodigal son. It's specific to the second coming!!! It all works. That's why the eagles "beat themselves in lamentationl."

    SO PLEASE, GIVE ME A PILL! I need one that will blind me as well so I can ignore all the scriptures and the cloud images and the subliminal WTS imagery!

    This is MORE than my imagination. And what other choice do we have? Some Jesus had to appear in 1992 once you correct the timeline, which I have. The VAT4956 corrects it whether anybody is wise enough or astute or honest enough to admit it. But I can see what's going on. That dates the fall to 529 BCE and that points to 1992 also. You can ACTUALLY SEE the 511 BCE references in the text, I posted it at my YouTube site for people to actually SEE THEM as charted in the Redshift program. They are actually there! But to align with 1992?

    And Martin Anstey had ALWAYS figured the Bible must be fulfilled by Cyrus. I agree. That 70 weeks prophecy can ONLY be fufilled by Cyrus which means 455 BCE must date the 1st of Cyrus. The Jews didn't build a new temple in the middle of a wide open city without a wall!!! Give me a BREAK! PALEEEZE! The walls and the city were built along with the temple. There is no foundation at all, other than the messed up chronology to think Nehemiah's 52-day repair work fulfills that prophecy. Funny to me, when you date 455 BCE for the 1st of Cyrus and you follow both Bible and Josephus to introduce 70 years to year 23 of Nebuchadnezzar in 525 BCE, year 19 falls in 529 BCE. The same dating you get with the VAT4956. This is just an occam's razor moment! Everything is just as it appears. The Persians changed the chronology and tried to hide secret references for themselves in diaries to the original chronology. It's that simle. We've uncovered this and can now correct the timeline. But WHY does this corrected timeline align with 1992 as well?

    So, yeah, I need A LOT OF DRUGS, drugs to just KNOCK ME OUT because as soon as I wake up those scriptures and all this other stuff is going to be there and how can I ignore it? YOU CAN though. I know you can ignore the significance of the second wave offering WITH LEAVEN. But if you're of the anointed you can't. And the WTS can't. So we have our own little competition going, even on YouTube, but that's another story.

    Thanks for suggesting I take medication. In fact, that reminds me. My glass is empty. Time for another rum and coke!

    JC

  • scholar
    scholar

    AnnOMaly

    Post 766

    Yes, you claim to have read the article but you seem to miss the point of the article which was about methodology so I repeat you must read the Introduction again. It seems that all that you see is the fact that the author uses computer modelling to arrive at the opiionated date of 587 BCE for the Fall.

    Celebrated WT scholars have used all of the evidence oth biblical and secular to prove that 607 BCE is the only possible datre for the Fall of Jerusalem. Their methodology is carefully explained as with all of the evidence and it is simple and precise which cannnot be said for the proponents of 586 or 587 BCE.

    The existing secular chronology is sick and is not in good shape and that is why Young wrote that article. The very fact that the precise date for the Fall cannot be determined proves that the traditional chronology is hopeless. This chronology was far too complex long before your so-called amateurs dealt with for you only need to read the immense literature published on trying to solve the calendrical problems over the last few decades. Even Jonsson an amateur was forced to acknowledge these issues in his Appendix to the GTR.

    I believe I first introduced Young's article on this forum and perhaps on Channel C but in any event I beat the apostates to the punch on this line as well as with a few others. Besides, Young's article nicely addresses Jonsson's complaint about the Society's preference for 539 BCE.

    scholar JW

  • JCanon
    JCanon
    Your research is right. I also done the same and came up with the same year 587. Zechariah 7 verse1 and 5 proves this. 518 was King Darius's fourth year so if you count 518 as 1 year for the fasting and add 69 more years, you will get 587. Even at the top of the WTS's bible, at chapter 7, it says 70 years. The Bible and History agree. WTS does not agree with anyone but their self.

    This is the 4th year of DARIUS THE MEDE not Darius I. The Jews are still in exile during this time asking "when will God show mercy to the cities" so the cities are still devastated. Therefore, Zech 7 supports JOSEPHUS who claims the 70 years did not begin until the last deportation which means the Jews would not have been released until 74 years after the destruction of Jerusalem. By this reference we can establish that Darius the Mede, who was the grandson of Nebuchadnezzar ruled for a full six years before Cyrus came to the throne to become king over Babylon. Note specifically at 2 Chronicles 36:20 that it is not until the "royalty of the Persians" that the Jews are released. The "royalty of the Persians" does not include the royalty of the Medes. That is why the Bible makes a clear distinction between Darius the MEDE and Cyrus the PERSIAN. Darius ruled for six years before Cyrus became the king over the entire empire when Darius the Mede abdictated rulership to Cyrus. The Jews had not returned home yet in either the 2nd or 4th year of Darius, so this reference is a reference to DARIUS the MEDE, a common error by all the "scholars" including JWs. But Zechariah 1 and 7 reflect the Jewish chronology of the 70 years which begins with the last deportation and lasts until the 1st of Cyrus which is 6 years after the fall of Jerusalem to the Medes and the Persians, even though since Darius the Mede was the grandson of Nebuchadnezzar and Nabonidus was still at-large at Borsippa, the Babylonian kings were still ruling until Cyrus the PERSIAN took over the empire. JC

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit