Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books! (page 9)

Tom Cabeen

For Jeff Schwehm regarding your post on page 2 of this thread:

Regarding that couple that had a Down's Syndrome child... As little respect as I had for Karl Klein, I am amazed that he told that story as an example of God punishing someone for their actions. I guess that says something about how he thought about God.

The couple in question was Colin Lake and Maggie Maes. Maggie and Colin got infatuated with each other and ran off together, at almost exactly the time that the Eagles song "Lyin' Eyes" was released, I think around 1975. I remember listening to the song and thinking about them. What they did scandalized Bethel, and that was not easy to do.

Colin was in Dispatch, and Maggie was the wife of one of my dearest friends, Fred Maes, a former Spanish Circuit and District Overseer. Colin's wife Dorothy was a good woman. (At the time, she looked very much like Dustin Hoffman as "Tootsie") She was more than an acquaintance, but not really a close friend.

Fred later left Bethel, remarried, went back into the District work for a few years, then dropped out of the org. He had a pretty good life. He was never df'd, to my knowledge. He died of cancer about ten years ago, in December, 1998, I think. I spent a few days down there with him just before he died.

I remember being so sad, both for Colin and Maggie and for their mates, Fred and Dorothy, all of whom I knew pretty well. I believe that Maggie wanted a child so badly, but the end just wouldn't come and her biological clock was ticking away... She must have been in her mid-forties when their baby was born. Dorothy was still at Bethel when we left. I wish them all peace and God's blessing.

A little side note about Karl Klein. One day I was sitting in Dan Sydlik's office. We were shooting the bull as we did almost every day. Suddenly the door burst open and Karl Klein was at the door. He was so excited, he didn't even look to see if there was anyone else there in the office. When he opened the door, I was sort of hidden behind it, because Karl didn't come right in, but stood there in the doorway, gleefully announcing his big news: "I've made it, Dan!" he said. "I'm finally at the top of the heap! I'm the Chairman of the Governing Body! Can you imagine!?!" Dan looked at him as he was speaking, then he sort of shrank a bit in his chair, then he looked at me, then back at Karl. Karl stopped in mid-sentence. He said "Oh, I didn't know anyone was here." I excused myself and left, leaving him to exult over his new job (which he only held for a year, as the chairmanship rotated). Dan and I never discussed it. I think Dan was embarrassed for Karl. But I don't think Karl was embarrassed for himself.

Tom

wschroeder

Hi Tom,

Good to see you're still in the neighborhood. Last time we met was about 10 years ago at Greg's in Long Island.

The Wed night sauna ritual was a regular event for a long time, but I don't read much of anything about it by ex-Bethelites. I also went once, but never got inside because of the packed house, inside and out. I waited for a little while and never tried again. I did get to enjoy the sauna at better hours and would sleep like a baby afterwards.

Thanks for the info and correction about Nestor and Toni.

I believe Chris and Norma are still in Queens or LI. I think Greg stays in touch.

I spoke to your good friend Carl Johnson just a couple days ago. I say that because he has never failed to bring up your name if we discuss Bethel or JW's.

Carl and I played in a Bethel band together, and even performed the music for the Family Night production when they did "Oklahoma" as a template for the "Construction and Home Crew Must Be Friends" and other parodies of the stage play. It was quite fun. I have a picture of us to the side of the stage. I will have to dig it out and post a copy.

Another interesting story can be told about this event which I will save for later. It involves wild music, and a flipped story about the history of the Squibb buildings.

Cheers,
Warren

CunningMan

Tom,

Is the Freddy in your sauna story Freddy Franz? If so, that is the most disturbing story I've yet read. I've only seen the old guy in pictures, but the image of him naked in a towel, moaning for more steam is more than I can bear.

As for Karl Klein, it never ceases to amaze me that this guy made it onto the governing body.

Mulan

very cool reading about R. Lengtat, a man who helped us through our excruciating exit..............long, slow successful fade. So glad he moved to the Seattle area.

Tom Cabeen

Yup, it was Freddy Franz all right. And you are right to be disturbed by those images. :-)

I was amazed myself that Klein made it on the GB. I guess technically he met all the requirements, but his articles were ridiculous. So while Ray Franz ("anointed") and Ed Dunlap ("other sheep") were assigned (by Karl Adams, Writing Department Overseer and also "other sheep") to write study articles and study books, Karl was assigned to write articles for Awake about things like dung beetles and banana trees. Other writers told me that it used to burn him up with envy. So he played a key role in the 1980 "Franz/Dunlap" incident, thus eliminating his rivals. Finally, he got to write some "outstanding" Watchtower study articles. My favorite was his classic about "tacking into the wind." In that article, he destroyed any credibility the WTS may have had by revealing their secret: that no one at WT HQ had divine direction, nor any clue as to what they were talking about; that they were all just feeling their way along like blind mice looking for their tails. Or is it "the blind leading the blind?" That was adapted from one of his service talks. (I'll bet Karl Adams was ready to jump off the Brooklyn Bridge when that one got published.) Yes, Karl was one of a kind, a true "Watchtower man."

Tom

Mary

Regarding that couple that had a Down's Syndrome child... As little respect as I had for Karl Klein, I am amazed that he told that story as an example of God punishing someone for their actions. I guess that says something about how he thought about God.

This is a prime example that shows how little the leadership of the Witnesses know about anything biological, mental, or psychological problems. It's a medical fact that if a woman has their first child past the age of 40, the chances of it having Down Syndrome increases. It's not a punishment from God.

This reminds me of a story I recently heard about an elder who wanted to ban a sister from entering the Kingdom Hall because they thought she was posessed by demunz. She would spit on people, swear and yell crazy things out whenever she entered the KH. I suggested that it was far more likely that she had Tourette's Syndrome because those are all the symptoms and instead of banning her for 'demon posession', maybe someone should take her to the doctors to get some medication that would help.

You'd think that the Awake! magazines ~~which are equal to a 4 year college degree~~, would have told them that.

Tom Cabeen

Hey Warren,

I sent an email to Christ and Norma about a year ago, but got no reply. Maybe I have an old email address.

I still have the pictures from that get together at Greg's. I think I brought my son, Matt, who was going to be a senior in high school at the time. He is now married and expecting our first grandchild, a little boy in October. I will send you a PM with my phone number. Give me a call when you get a chance.

How well I remember Carl Johnson! Give him my best regards and my phone number. I would love to hear from him also.

This thread has brought so many funny stories to my head. So many crazy things happened while I was there, and I met so many wonderful people. I worked hard, but I had fun, too, and laughed my head off so many times. I had a ball with the Pressroom guys when I was Overseer there. Guys like Randy Watters actually ran the Pressroom (in the sense of doing actual work), once we got the thing running well. After that, it was mostly my job to take the heat when the guys did something to get unfavorable notice from the Factory Committee.

I learned a lot at Bethel, too. Maybe not what I (or my family) expected I would learn, but it turned out to be very useful in the long run.

Tom

minimus

Tom, when you sent the email to christ, didya get a response?

I LOVE THIS THREAD!!! THIS IS THE TYPE OF INSIDE INFO YOU CAN ONLY GET HERE!!!

james_woods

I was not going to be the first to mention the legend of Freddy and the sauna.

It had been told to me by a good friend as a matter of warning long before I ventured up north.

Very, very strange. And many have wondered about all the implications.

Tom Cabeen

No, but Mary says Hi!

Better make that Chris! Ha Ha. You guys are brutal! No slack! Where did you learn this...oh never mind. I know...

Tom

Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!

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