Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!

by Dogpatch 501 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Mulan

  Franz concludes by stating that Robert Lang was for him "the kind of person he was, not because of the organization, but in spite of the organization."

  Bob Lang married one of my childhood friends, and lives out here now. He is still an active JW, but I know he is extremely liberal and fair and doesn't believe in going after the ones who leave. He really is a good guy. Everyone loves him because he is such a good man. I am confident that if we saw him, he would greet us warmly, maybe even hug us.
• 

  Gamaliel

  Warren,
  
  Can't take credit (or blame) for "Betty Botter". There's even a version on Wikipedia. It was one of those many ditties you learn just to help you get through the long days pioneering in the "boondocks" where 2 of you sit in the car while the other two make a return visit lasting 2 hours. And then you remember that you need to bring magazines to someone on the other side of the county. Plenty of time to find spoonerisms in all the kingdom songs, learn "classical" harmonica with Iver Strandberg. And make up your own versions of the Watchtower and Awake.
  
  You said: "Sam and the savages" is still one of your favorites. I performed that one at a Gilead student party and then one brother who knew some of my "parodies" wanted me to show my "fake" Awake! magazine covers. ("Awake?" -- by Pastor Bedtime) I had to refuse to show it until more people had left because ... well... you know, "Awake?: was bound to produce volumes of trouble in the wrong hands.
  
  Poor old Drew. For all I know he might be a changed person and a contributor to this site by now, so I personally wouldn't tell about the more infamous of his youthful indiscretions. So -- YOU tell it!
  
  It's true we were all monetarily poor at Bethel. But then, as you know, if you play your cards right, (I mean live cheaply enough) you can save up all those allowances for 3 years and travel to Europe for 4 weeks. (This assumes your brother sells his business, comes to Bethel, and travels with you in case you need a little extra spending money. Fortunately Dean Songer gave me some extra vacation days to spend in Europe if I would go to the Bethel Branch in Athens and help them set up some "pre-press" facilities. I'll bet you'll never forget ... what's-her-name ... that Greek sister who turned down the attention of several Bethelites at once while we were there. She sure turned the tables on the usual S.O.P. for male Bethelites. LOL.
  
  Of course, I can't agree that they were ALL poor. Remember when Bert Schroeder told us we could tag along with them for part of the Europe trip? Our accomodations would have gone from "one-half star" hostels to "four-star" if we had taken him up on it.
  
  Bro-for-real, Greg
• 

  Tom Cabeen

  Hey Greg,
  
  About the Bob Lang and Percy Harding stories, there were many similar stories at Bethel that I either heard or was involved with. Over time, they shaped my views of the WTS and what people like me could do to change things. For a long time, I was committed to trying to effect that change.
  
  But when I finally became convinced that WT chronology was a complete fabrication (thank you Carl Olof), their whole theology, ecclesiology and interpretational scheme collapsed before me like a house of cards. I felt like someone who had, through extraordinary efforts, arrived late and managed to catch a train at the platform, got a great seat, sat down and was enjoying the ride, then slowly began to notice that the station names were not quite right, then finally became convinced that I was on the wrong train. When I came to that realization, I just wanted to get off. I wanted no revenge, I just wanted off. I didn't want to waste any more of my life there.
  
  One of the stories I remember clearly involved a very nice young man in the Pressroom named Karl. He came from the Midwest, Michigan as I recall, and his family was very poor (they had no electricity in their house). He was a great guy, hard worker, honest as the day is long. I married Karl and his wife (meaning I conducted the ceremony) and I had great respect for them both. At that time, Bethelites earned vacation days one day at a time. Karl wanted to visit home on a particular week so that he could attend a Circuit Assembly and see his friends. He put in for a vacation and got turned down, so he came to me to see if there was something I could do. (The poor guy was going out to Michigan on the bus, and he needed a few days to get home, then to the assembly.) He was turned down because of a technicality. Follow closely here.
  
  The problem was that by the time he wanted to leave, Karl would only have earned five days of vacation time. But we worked five and a half days per week, so he was one half day short for a full week. When he left, he wouldn't have enough vacation time to be on vacation Saturday morning. But he would earn the half day he needed when the week he was on ended.
  
  Technically, however, he wouldn't earn the day until Saturday noon (at the end of the Bethel work week), so the half day he would then earn would not be usable until the next week. It was such a nitpicking technicality that when he told me about it, I just laughed. I thought he was joking. But when I saw that he was dead serious, I was outraged. I went up to Wheelock's office on the 8th floor and explained the situation. Wheelock lit into me for a long time, telling me how everyone wanted an exception, and rules were rules, etc. etc. etc. I told him that in view of Karl's situation, and his hard work and character, and the fact that he wanted to go when he did because of wanting to attend an assembly, I strongly recommended that they make an exception. It was such a nitpicking technicality, I said. Maybe it was the word "nitpicking". Or maybe it was the expression of disgust on my face. But it only made him more angry. I was in his office for quite a while. Needless to say, I didn't convince him to go to bat for Karl.
  
  But I learned something from that situation about the possibilities of effecting any real change among the people who ran that place. With a heavy heart, I had to return and tell Karl that he had better make other plans.
  
  Tom
• 

  Gamaliel

  Tom, I know that there were many more of these stories, too. But it was so unbalanced. The unfairness has always made me angry. Well, NOT ALWAYS, because I was also blinded by the "privilege" of getting the advantageous "long end" of the fairness stick. You had guys sweating it out between bells on some floors and then some floors where my roommate and I were doing exactly what we wanted to do - and it was easy work. I did artwork and graphics, and he came in to work in the new computer dept. (And did I mention, we both had air-conditioning.)
  
  I was always allowed to take a walk back to 124 by just telling Bill Gehring I wanted a little extra time to talk to someone in 124. (Napolitano, Rusk, or Rinehart in Writing - or Bert Schroeder across the street from them. And they had no problem taking an hour to talk.) Bro and Sister Schroeder had set me up from day one at Bethel to be a friend of them and of their son, and invited me to parties in their room where he always managed to grab some great musical talent and served food that would have taken me several months to pay for. Schroeder even gave me access to his office while he wasn't there. He had a couple of "ego" research projects for me to work on, and he had some references in his office library for them. Of course, for a while, I thought this was a great privilege, but Napolitano and mostly Rinehart were the only ones who really understood what was behind my questioning of things I'd run across in research.
  
  With them, you learned to develop almost a second language of speaking about things when you both knew what you meant, but without truly saying it in such a way that would cause trouble for yourself or the other person. After a while, one could use these same techniques to give a talk on 1914 or Organization and never say anything you truly felt was wrong. But then you'd realize that only your own wife or one or two members who were already clued in were really understanding what you were saying. I felt like I was in a strange world within a strange world. I look back, amazed at how long it really took to realize that the ENTIRE direction was wrong.
  
  I like your train story, except that I can't believe I stayed on in the wrong direction for so many stops. It's like I was already explaining to others that these stops can't be right. But I wouldn't get off myself. I gave it an extra 2 years even after Bethel.
  
  Greg
• 

  Dogpatch

  Cab sez,

  But when I finally became convinced that WT chronology was a complete fabrication (thank you Carl Olof), their whole theology, ecclesiology and interpretational scheme collapsed before me like a house of cards. I felt like someone who had, through extraordinary efforts, arrived late and managed to catch a train at the platform, got a great seat, sat down and was enjoying the ride, then slowly began to notice that the station names were not quite right, then finally became convinced that I was on the wrong train. When I came to that realization, I just wanted to get off. I wanted no revenge, I just wanted off.

  Priceless! That moment arrives when all that you have loved and hoped for suddelnly catches in your throat, threatening to explode your brain with all the frightening and horrific nightmares of this "not being the truth" that you thought you had so nicely resolved many years earlier. NOOOOoooo. !!

  What a wretched feeling!! Your whole body shakes at the realization you have been duped. Years of stupidity flash before your eyes. A primal feeling of having been somehow "raped" might overcome you. If you were already in a bad place emotionally, anger can well up and absolutely CONTROL you like a monster. (THINK "Willow" when she freaks out in her season six Buffy/Vampire years as a witch, destroying blindly in a rage, EVERYTHING formerly beautiful to her, without any remorse whatsover.) I was lucky enough to be in a good frame of mind when it hit, THANKS TO Cab and all my other buds at Bethel, WHO SAVED MY ASS from God knows how many more years of stupidity. What a difference a few good friends make in your life.

  I wanted off, too, even though I was at the peak of my career. I remember the day after I had had a long deadpan discussion about the whole AID book thing (with your unnerving "don't mean to kill you, but listen to this..." laugh injected halfway into the deadly details of who was about to get kicked out of Bethel and why - GOOD GOD that was scary but exciting!) and I was over by the Harris presses, walking over to my Hoe. And I though to myself, "You know, Randy, if this is all true, then it's really WORTH it! But if it's NOT true, it's really EVIL. I really scared myself on that one.

  Bethel made life an adrenaline rush. I'm still a junkie. :-))

  I could look back and say, "It was all a waste," but the thousands of wonderful people I have met along the way laughs that bit of self-pity out the door.

  You only live once.

  Randy
• 

  Dogpatch

  Satanus said,

  The closest friendships/strongest bonds are made in institutional style life, or high stress environments, like war. It's why, after exiting, many of us have a hard time filling the gaps left by friends that we leave behind. Topics like this one recall the positives of that life. My opinion.

  Amen, brutha!

  seriously, friends have literally saved my life so many times. i am very private socially, but my friends are my life.

  Randy
• 

  still_in74

  You go ahead and continue to revel in your jw days. That is your right.

  you are absolutely intitled to your oppinion and feelings. We were/are all hurt by the WTS, including the many contributors to this thread.

  As S4 stated, it was not the press room guys that wagged the org. These truly believed they were doing what was right, they were misguided the same way you were. But they saw it for what it was and left and endured the pain and consequences that resulted.

  But think about this.... as we all strive to piece our lives back together and struggle with feelings of worthlesness and isolation, is it wrong to be able to look back on our lives and find the positive in our experiences? Do we not already struggle trying to find meaning in our life?

  I for one believe that if we can find these gems, these "fun" times and good memories, then despite all the craziness in our lives we can somehow piece together a life that has some meaning.
• 

  still_in74

  I am not an "ex Witness" any more than I am an "ex high school student".

  awesome analogy! One of the best I've heard.
• 

  Seeker4

  Some nice posts here.
  
  Thinks still_in74 for your PM. Much appreciated.
  
  Check out my post on the Anyone Know How to get a Book Published thread started by Awakened@Gilead.
  
  S4
• 

  lrkr

  I'll add my voice- this thread is great.

  I wasted 8 years at Bethel too, but it wasn't really a waste. Because you meet people who are good people, you see the reality of some people, you loose respect for some of the offices and vices of the org, and you grow.

  The people Cabeen, Randy and others talk about were long gone or legends by the time I got there. I always wondered what happened to Lang- I saw his signature on many a memo and wondered what happened. The reality behind some of the gentle, kindly old men who are so revered now is quite incredible. Some of the quotes here of things said by Rusk, Campbell, and others show why, really, they are at the center of the org now. They are being rewarded for their "loyalty"