by BurnTheShips 59 Replies latest members politics
I am waiting to see how the USOC rules in Heller v Washington DC... if the DC gunban is overruled there is a good chance all other state and Federal gun laws will be in court challenges soon.
If it goes our way it will be much harder for Obama and a Democrat congress to try this kind of crap.
BTS
I the 30's we made full auto aganst the law without paying a few hundred dollar tax on the privilege of owning one. A real machine gun will cost a whole bunch ... most start and $2 grand ... or more. A Tommy gun with "provenace" will go right out the window...$7 to 10 K. the 30's laws set minimum barrel lengths and such for long arms.
These were all aimed against the Pretty Boy Floyds and Bonnie and Clyde types... Gang bangers of the first degree... If those laws worked then why cant they be enforced agains the Tupac wannabes out there today? They can...we have enough laws.
We have read of a case were a guy had a sear failure on a Ruger 10-22 at a public range. It went full auto for 10 rounds... he heard from the ATF the next day...lost the gun and had to fight a legal battle to stay out of jail.
In 68 if laws said you could not send guns in the mail or buy through the mail anymore... good law in my opinion. The law made minimum sizes for handguns..ok law... it required serial numbers and FFL paper work to purchase guns... good law.
All the laws we have today gun wise dont stop crime. The just make the honest folks jump through a few hoops to excercise Amemdment 2.
Hill
Gun Regulation..What an incredible waste of time and money.....We have stricter Laws in Canada,than the USA....You can buy any kind of gun you want here..They`re illegal and available..
.......Gun regulation dosen`t do much,except keep some guns from law abiding people.................
...OUTLAW
"The firearm on the left is the “pre-ban” Tec-9 pistol, one of those firearms outlawed for manufacture under the ban. On the right is the AB-10 (AB mockingly standing for “after ban”), functionally the exact same firearm, minus just the scary-looking cosmetic feature of a barrel shroud. The overwhelming majority of weapons “outlawed” by the so-called “ban” were already in gun shops in minimally modified legal configurations before the ban even became law. Sales never slowed, and for many models they increased."
Correct me if I'm wrong but the change to the tec was primarily to the trigger assembly. After-ban tecs could not easily be fitted with the old full auto trigger assembly. This happened to a whole slew of firearms. Off the top of my head the ones I saw were Calico, Linda, Colt, H&K and Ruger. Other cosmetic changes were also made on these "new models", think GM changing from two headlights to four. Passing those changes off as cosmetic *only* is misleading. I was collecting guns during one of these periods, two of the *after-ban* H&K 911's I bought would have been worth twice their actual value if they could have been easily fitted with the old readily available full auto trigger assemblies.
I see gun control as a non-issue though. United we stand, divided we fall. Let the masses squabble over the mundane while the power brokers do as they please.
The *real* gun control issue in the US is why in the hell are we spending 80% of our Federal Budget on the military? More than every other county put together. Are we that freakin' insecure as a Country?
I say give every citizen a Ruger Mini-30, a K-Bar and the training to use them and cut the Military budget down to 20%. I could just imagine a terrorist telling his cell leader, "F You! I ain't going to the US on a mission...those people are crazy!"
Correct me if I'm wrong but the change to the tec was primarily to the trigger assembly.
To my knowledge the trigger assembly was not changed by Intratec. Civilian versions were always open-bolt semi-auto.
Here is some info:
The TEC-9 design was started in Sweden, when the Interdynamic AB company of Stockholm developed a relatively simple submachine gun. Since Sweden was a poor market for such product, a subsidiary company Interdynamic was established in Miami (Florida, USA), to market Interdynamic guns in USA. As the full-automatic weapons market in USA is very restrictive, the basic submachine gun was converted in semi-automatic only variant, apparently suitable for civilian US market. This semi-automatic pistol, like its submachine gun predecessor, was a simple blowback design, firing from the open bolt. It was designated Interdynamic KG-9. But, sooner than later, US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) found that this semiautomatic pistol can be easily converted back to full automatic, and restricted it manufacture. Interdynamic redesigned the KG-9 into "closed bolt" design by adding the separate striker, and designated it KG-99. About the same time (mid-1980s) the Interdynamic of USA turned into Intratec Firearms, Inc, based in the same city of Miami (Florida). Intratec initially produced the KG-99 under the designation of TEC-9, but about 1989 renamed it into DC-9. With the introduction of the infamous US Assault Weapons Ban in 1994 the Intratec pistols were prohibited for manufacture (but not for ownership, if made before the ban). Intratec subsequently slightly redesigned the basic design, dropping some "assault" features like the threaded barrel, barrel shroud, and forward pistol grip. In this "post-ban" version the pistol was manufactured and sold as AB-10 (AB stands for After Ban). The AB-10 pistols were sold with 10-round magazines, but still could accept both factory and aftermarket high capacity magazines from its predecessors, TEC-9 and DC-9. There were several manufacturers in US, who made copies of DC-9, such as AA Arms, which produced DC-9 look-alike AP-9 pistols. Like originals, AP-9 pistols were of cheap construction and marginal reliability.
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg136-e.htm
The *real* gun control issue in the US is why in the hell are we spending 80% of our Federal Budget on the military? More than every other county put together. Are we that freakin' insecure as a Country?
That is not accurate, the figure is far less, more like a quarter of your figure, and that is with a war in progress.
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/what_about_ben_jerrys_chart_saying.html
BTS
I say give every citizen a Ruger Mini-30, a K-Bar and the training to use them and cut the Military budget down to 20%. I could just imagine a terrorist telling his cell leader, "F You! I ain't going to the US on a mission...those people are crazy!"-Amicus
I think you got the "substance" of A2 right on the head.
Colt and the other AR's have been machined to prevent conversion to full-auto for a long time.
The Full auto laws have made it illegal to own the parts to convert sister semi-autos to full auto for a long time..unless the taxes have been paid one the parts. The full laws are long and complicated... as said before -we have plenty.
Hill
I got distracted from the guns:
9.2% on interest??... Now that's our problem.
Nvr, I'm sorry about that 8 year-old boy. It's tragic, for sure.
But it wasn't any of my guns that did it. I wouldn't argue with a law that took guns away from those proven to be irresponsible. There was a mother who ran a stop sign here a few weeks back and was struck broadside by a Dodge 1-ton doing 60mph. Killed her and her child who was in a car seat. I don't think anyone ever considered confiscating all trucks, all 1-ton trucks, not even all Dodge 1-ton trucks. Makes no sense.
Carlos
You forced me to do some research, and my 80% was garbage. I just heard it too from some talking head. Dang.
Although what I've been reading for the last 30 mins or so indicate that the numbers used in that pie chart don't reflect actual spending in Afghanistan nor Iraq. They fall under "Special Funding". Homeland Defense and Vet Affairs should be lumped together with the other numbers as well, to provide a more accurate total.
Regardless, I think the topic of gun control is a non-issue. Gun ownership rights will eventually over time be eroded away in the US. Right or wrong, it's going to happen. The last thing the Federal Gov wants is citizens that can actually serve as a militia. I personally don't think it has anything to do with crime, it's a control thing. This is just one of those hot button topics that let us "think" that there is a difference between the two political parties. There is one party wearing the same color suit but different color ties in a Republic that likes to think of itself as a Democracy. The rest is smoke and mirrors. Who do I vote for this time, red tie or blue tie?
I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but the more I read the more I see why many don't agree with the numbers used on that pie chart. 80% of US taxes raised isn't being spend on defense, but depending on how you view where interest on the nation dept should be charged, the actual percentage can go from mid 40% to mid 50%.
The reason for most of the discrepancy is that military spending is *hidden* all over the place. DOE covers nukes, NASA covers some military programs, costs for vets (retirement and medical) is the VA, Homeland Security covers the Coast Guard, etc. The cost of past loans for previous military conflicts is hidden somewhere else. The cost of the loans for the cost overruns of the current conflicts are hidden in another location. It seems tracking all the actual dollars spent on Defense is a bit of a challenge for those who attempt to do so. (Umm, isn't Defense kind of misleading as well...shouldn't it be Offense spending?)
So 80% was wrong, 50 % is more accurate. Think about it though, 50% of the taxes collected by the Federal Government is spent on something that essentially produces no useable product. What a waste of money.
