WHY we can not afford health care in the US...

by zeroday 57 Replies latest jw friends

  • Gregor
    Gregor

    Unlike most of the posters above, I am no expert on this subject (but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night). I have not heard anyone knock down the following arguments as to the WHY of health care costs soaring out of sinc with normal inflation:

    1 The Fed and State government is already involved in providing health care. Like most things they touch it is inefficient, bloated and corrupt. The medical professions fees are influenced by access to these deep pockets. The bureaucratic burden placed on them is a factor also. Why would you want to give the #@%$ government the whole enchilada?

    2. Carlos' point about Tort reform should not be overlooked. A huge percentage of medical costs are to pay for malpactice insurance to protect the health care provider from jury awards of zillions which are being won by glorified ambulance chasers like John Edwards. Remember, jury awards are not necessarily based on medical facts but rather the emotional persuasion by the attorneys. The silicone breast implant settlements are a perfect example.

    3. The poor and indigent (including illegal emmygrunts) already receive "free" health care. The costs are absorbed by the system and passed along to, among others, the poor working stiff who can't afford health and dental care for his own family but is contributing through income, medicare, and workmans comp.,taxes. Naturally, people who fall into this category will vote for whoever promises a 'solution' even if it is a disaster like government provided health care.

    By the way, pointing to the Cuban health care system as a model is a real howler. Among other things, they save a ton of money by warehousing people with incurable conditions, like HIV positive and Aids in isolated quarantine with no treatment until they die.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    The Fed and State government is already involved in providing health care. Like most things they touch it is inefficient, bloated and corrupt.

    Then why is it so much more efficient than the private sector?

    That's what's funny; you didn't do any research to come up with that bullshit, you just assumed that if you spouted off what you've heard republicans and libertarians say for the last 10 years, criticising government, you couldn't go wrong. (hint: their lips were moving).

    Well, you went wrong. You're wrong because other countries governments do healthcare far more efficiently than the United States private sector, but more importantly, you're wrong because the United States government does healthcare more efficiently (even if still inneficient) than the United States private sector.

    Look it up.

  • freydi
    freydi

    Mary said that freydi said: Well I'm trying to point out to those at a deeper level that living in a terminal condition eventually makes life a tragedy and without hope. Fact one, people die. Fact two, doctors can't change fact one. Fact three, most people don't want to believe fact two. But to those with hope there is comfort from the Scriptures that no health care system can provide or ever will this side of the establishment of His Kingdom.

    "Yes, and it is this sort of ridiculous 'logic' that keeps 6.5 million Witnesses in the Twilight Zone. You realize of course that all the elderly Witnesses that are alive today were all told that they'd never grow old in this System of things right freydi?? Yes, they were all going to be petting lions and look 35 years of age again by now because God's Kingdom was going to be established in 1914, 1915, 1925, 1941, 1975, 1984, before 2000, and now "soooooooon". These people waited their entire lives for The End to come and it never happened."

    They didn't read the Scriptures carefully......(Matthew 15:13-14) . . .: “Every plant that my heavenly Father did not plant will be uprooted. 14 LET them be. Blind guides is what they are. If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”. . .

  • Gregor
    Gregor

    Six, You're a funny dude! First of all, getting angry when presented with a viewpoint different than yours is a good sign that your argument is based in emotion, not intellect or facts.

    You give me a epithet laced speech about not having any facts or figures, then you proceed to tell me a few popular liberal fairy tales that I am supposed to go "look up" if I don't believe you!

  • Mary
    Mary
    "Yes, and it is this sort of ridiculous 'logic' that keeps 6.5 million Witnesses in the Twilight Zone. You realize of course that all the elderly Witnesses that are alive today were all told that they'd never grow old in this System of things right freydi?? Yes, they were all going to be petting lions and look 35 years of age again by now because God's Kingdom was going to be established in 1914, 1915, 1925, 1941, 1975, 1984, before 2000, and now "soooooooon". These people waited their entire lives for The End to come and it never happened."

    freydi said: They didn't read the Scriptures carefully......(Matthew 15:13-14) . . .: “Every plant that my heavenly Father did not plant will be uprooted. 14 LET them be. Blind guides is what they are. If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”.

    You're right, they didn't read the Scriptures-----they were too busy listening to a group of Pharisees down at Brooklyn Bethel who told them for decades that "the End" would come before the generation of 1914 passed away.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Six, You're a funny dude! First of all, getting angry when presented with a viewpoint different than yours is a good sign that your argument is based in emotion, not intellect or facts. You give me a epithet laced speech about not having any facts or figures, then you proceed to tell me a few popular liberal fairy tales that I am supposed to go "look up" if I don't believe you!

    No seriously, look it up, and then stop lying. The facts aren't going to change anytime soon, and I layed out the basic facts in my post above.

    :pats gregor on the head:

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    Well, you went wrong. You're wrong because other countries governments do healthcare far more efficiently than the United States private sector, but more importantly, you're wrong because the United States government does healthcare more efficiently (even if still inneficient) than the United States private sector.

    It's true, if we lock ourselves into an essentially monopolistic system, we are going to get better service.

    It's true, the government that does such a stellar job with inner city schools and social security should also have the power to provide my health care.

    It's true, the government that pays more than $200 for a hammer or a toilet seat will keep our healthcare costs down.

    It's true, if the government takes over healthcare there will actually be less red tape, bureaucracy, and corruption.

    It's true, the government is so efficient and competent that I want them to control even more parts of my life.

    No seriously, look it up, and then stop lying. It is not my job to reference facts when I engage in a diatribe. It is my job to call you stupid if I think you are wrong. It is you job to find out why you are so stupid.

    BTS

  • beksbks
    beksbks
    It's true, the government is so efficient and competent that I want them to control even more parts of my life.

    Well, I have to disagree here Burn. I don't want them controlling my uterus, nor who I choose to marry, or my phone calls, email, or library records, nor what god I can or can't worship. I sure do wish they would control the condition of the roads and bridges though. Oh and the contamination of the air and water supply, that would be good. Protecting the populace from foreign invaders, although they seem to need a refresher in what that actually means. Geez and how could I forget, making sure the greedy bosses don't exploit the workers or the planet, that's on the list. But my personal life, no, no.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    And there you have it folks, basically religious ideology over practical solutions.

    They take it on faith that bad old government can't do nuthin'. But it can, and it does in other countries, and does at times in our own country (when the leadership is there). Besides, we are supposed to have government by of and for the people, so there's no reason we can't have a reasonably efficient healthcare system, by of and for ourselves.

    They take it on faith that a so-called "free market" system is better, even though that dog has stopped hunting years ago. It's a faith-based policy powered by slogans not really understood by the people chanting them. This is healthcare folks. Life and death and quality of life for all that time in between birth and death; we aren't talking about getting cheaper sidewalk blowers from China here (and even there, the free-market ain't looking so free anymore. Maybe cheap isn't really cheap. Maybe a society ought to think about 10 years from now, 20 years from now, and not just the comparable sales from last year. Maybe society ought to try to build a better future for it's children, and also for it's weakest). Maybe a society's health should be measured at it's base, and not at it's apex. You measure the true health of a society not by what the stock market is doing, but what the average-wage earner is facing. The average wage earner in America can afford a progressive-scan DVD player, but they can't afford to get sick.

  • beksbks
    beksbks

    Overpayments to Private Medicare Advantage Plans Threaten Medicare's Financial Solvency

    When Congress opened up Medicare to private plans, it was based on the claim that the private health insurance industry would be more efficient, provide more coordinated care for seniors and the disabled, and do so with less cost to the taxpayers and beneficiaries than the traditional Medicare program. The promises of efficiencies and lower costs have been illusory; Medicare now pays private Medicare Advantage plans more than it would cost to cover the same beneficiaries through the traditional Medicare program. According to the Medicare Payment Advisory Commission (MedPAC), these private plans are paid an average of 12 percent, or $1,000 per year, more to cover a Medicare beneficiary than the cost of traditional Medicare to cover the same beneficiary. Private Medicare Advantage fee-for-service plans are paid on average 19 percent more than the traditional Medicare fee-for service program.

    http://www.afscme.org/legislation-politics/16084.cfm

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