Identifying the "faithful and and discreet slave"

by tfjw 10 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • tfjw
    tfjw

    Identifying the "faithful and and discreet slave"

    This question is mainly for former JWs who consider themselves Christians. I'm wondering what or who, now that you are no longer in the Society, you believe this "faithful and wise servant" ("faithful and discreet slave") is. Just curios to know what others think about this. In the early history of the Society Russell taught this was the entire body of consecrated/dedicated believers/Christians. Later this was changed to point to himself. The Society promoted this thought sometime after his death and many JWs who remained with the Society even after the 1925 flunk and flip-flop, still thought of Russell as the FDS. Some of the groups that were originally associated with the Society prior to the 1920's and 1930's have differing views on the identification.

    Verse: Matthew 24:45 - "Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his lord has set over his household, to give them their food in due season?" (World English Bible)

    In Context: 32 "Now from the fig tree learn her parable. When its branch has now become tender, and puts forth its leaves, you know that the summer is near. 33 Even so you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34 Most assuredly I tell you, this generation will not pass away, until all these things are accomplished. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away. 36 But no one knows of that day and hour, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 As the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For as in those days which were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39 and they didn't know until the flood came, and took them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Then will two men be in the field: one is taken, and one is left; 41 two women grinding at the mill, one is taken, and one is left. 42 Watch therefore, for you don't know in what hour your Lord comes. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what watch the thief was coming, he would have watched, and would not have allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore also be ready, for in an hour that you don't expect, the Son of Man will come. 45 Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his lord has set over his household, to give them their food in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord will find doing so when he comes. 47 Most assuredly I tell you, that he will set him over all that he has. 48 But if that evil servant should say in his heart, 'My lord is delaying his coming,' 49 and began to beat his fellow-servants, and eat and drink with the drunken, 50 the lord of that servant will come in a day when he doesn't expect it, and in an hour when he doesn't know it, 51 and will cut him in pieces, and appoint his portion with the hypocrites; there is where the weeping and grinding of teeth will be." (World English Bible)

    Traditional Christian views:

    Adam Clarke Commentary seems to imply this is any "minister of Christ"

    Barnes' Notes on the New Testament: "By the conduct of a faithful and wise servant he intends to denote a faithful Christian, a servant of God, or a teacher of religion."

    Darby's Synopsis of the New Testament appears to put this in a plural sense instead of one single person.

    The New John Gill Exposition of the Entire Bible says: "a name that is very proper for the apostles and ministers of the word, who are stewards of the mysteries of Christ, and of the manifold grace of God; and whose characters are, that they are 'faithful': for this is required in stewards, that they be faithful to the trust reposed in them; as ministers are, when they preach the pure Gospel of Christ, and the whole of it"

    David Guzik's Commentaries on the Bible says: "We must be that faithful and wise servant who takes care of his master's business while the master is away."

    Matthew Henry Commentary says, "applicable to all Christians, who are in profession and obligation God's servants; but it seems especially intended as a warning to ministers; for the servant spoken of is a steward."

    WT Publication quotes:

    "The intimation here seems to be, that at the particular time indicated by the prophecy--namely, during the Lord's presence, and at the time of the gathering of the elect--our Lord, the great Servant of his people, will make choice of one channel for dispensing the meat in due season, though other channels or "fellow-servants" will be used in bringing the food to the "household." But the servant is merely a steward, and liable to be removed at any moment, should he fail to fully and duly acknowledge in every particular, the Master--the great Servant of God and his people--"the Messenger of the Covenant"--Christ.

    Faithfulness on the part of said steward (both to the "Master" and to "his fellow-servants" and "the household") will be rewarded by his continuance as steward; so long as he serves faithfully, he may continue, and may serve the household of faith with things new and old--meat in due season--to the end; bringing forth all the precious things of divine provision. But if unfaithful he will be deposed entirely and put into outer darkness, while presumably another would take the place, subject to the same conditions.

    To our understanding this would not imply that "that servant" or steward, used as a channel for the circulation of the "meat in due season," would be the originator of that meat, nor inspired, nor infallible. Quite to the contrary, we may be sure that whoever the Lord will so use, as a truth-distributing agent, will be very humble and unassuming, as well as very zealous for the Master's glory; so that he would not think of claiming authorship or ownership of the truth, but would merely dispense it zealously, as his Master's gift, to his Master's "servants" and "household." (studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 4, Study 12)

    "God in his own time raises up suitable servant or expounders" (plural) - Ref. Link

    Reversed to believe it was one person with "fellow servants" - Ref. Link

    "Those anointed Christians still alive on earth and faithfully acting as Christ’s 'slave' by keeping spiritually awake and supplying spiritual 'food at the proper time' would be appointed by Christ 'over all his belongings,' or Kingdom interests on earth. (Matthew 24:45-47; Luke 12:42-44) This 'faithful and discreet slave' would have to engage in and supervise a worldwide work of preaching 'this good news of the kingdom,' and 'then the end would come.'- Matthew 24:14." (Wt 12/1/84, "Keep Ready!"; see also Wt 1/3/2004, "The Faithful Slave Passes the Test"; Wt 3/15/1990, "The Faithful Slave and its Governing Body")

    Of interest.... What if someone didn't agree with Russell and the Society back in the old days?

    C.T. Russell said:
    "From the first we have urged that this subject be not allowed to produce contention or bitterness of spirit. Let each reach his own conclusions and act accordingly. If some think that they can get as good or better provender at other tables, or that they can produce as good or better themselves--let these take their course. All who feel dissatisfied with the spiritual food which our great Master has privileged us to send broadcast to every nation should certainly be looking anywhere and everywhere for something better. Our wish for them is that they might find something better. If we were dissatisfied ourselves, or if we knew where something better could be obtained, we certainly at any cost would seek it. And how could we find fault with others for doing what we ourselves would do? Rather let us bid them God-speed in their search for something more satisfactory." (WT Reprints)

    Thanks for your time.

    - Stephen

  • Terry
    Terry
    The intimation here seems to be, that at the particular time indicated by the prophecy--

    Sounds like they aren't certain!

    Maria Russell, Pastor Russell's "wife" invented the JW understanding of this novel neo-doctrine in the first place and applied it to BOTH she and her husband!

    Rutherford applied it, first, to Pastor Russell alone. Then, himself and later the elite group who ran the publishing business. It is to be noted, of course, Rutherford never gave any ACTUAL say to anybody but himself!

    Here is the best analogy I can use with an active Jw about the FDS.

    A Financial Advisor is hired to oversee your assets and investments so that, in the end, you have comfort and security when you come to retirement age. In the meantime, a wise Financial Advisor keeps your money working in ways that compound your holdings and increase your wealth.

    The proof of having an excellent Financial Advisor would be in the benefits they accrue on your behalf. Your assets are always greater than your liabilities!

    The disproof of the merit and benefit of a Financial Advisor would be ADVICE WHICH PROVES WRONG and places your holdings in jeopardy because of false information or simple mishandling and error!

    Why would this test be any different for the FDS than for a Financial Advisor?

    You, as the owner of the assets in the first place---will not continue to hire and maintain belief in a Financial Advisor whose errors, wrong headed advice and malfeasance is costing you precious wealth!

    Nobody can afford to go bankrupt by hanging on to bad investments because of bad financial advice!

    HOPE is not the answer...taking action to FIRE your Financial Advisor and go elsewhere is the wisest course of prudent action.

    So too for the FDS.

  • Perry
    Perry

    Hi TFJW,

    Simply using a King James Version will eliminate a lot of confusion about doctrine:

    Who then is a faithful and wise servant , whom his lord hath made ruler over his house hold , to give them meat in due season ?

    The new age bible versions leave the door open for a lot of error. The choice of the word "the" instead of 'a" in this instance leaves the door open for this to be a title of some sort....and of course the rest is history.

    For more info see:

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=_LvhQty02fk&feature=related

  • asilentone
    asilentone

    Perry, I saw the youtube video, she looks so familiar to me. Who is she?

  • TopHat
    TopHat

    When I was young and looking for an answer to who God was and is....I believed the GB to be the faithful and discreet slave besides the 1000's of other ones who claimed to be in that class. I honestly thought they knew how to interpret the words of God from the Bible. Even when I had my doubts later on, I felt I could be wrong. Now though I am back to square ONE. Still looking for answers. I know I was emotionally SCAMMED by this make-believe religion.!

  • Perry
    Perry

    Her name is Gail Riplinger.

    Do a You Tube search on her name and get the 13 or 16 part series. Or, you can get her amazing book, "New Age Bible Versions"

  • tfjw
    tfjw

    Terry, thanks for your excellent input. You put this quite well. I was curios what others thought on this matter from their own denominational perspective.

    Perry, I'll look at the video when I get a chance. I'm familiar with New Age Bible Versions book and some of the personal opinions of the author. Thanks for the link.

    Personally I belive this includes the entire body of Christians who are given the responsibility to teach in one manner or another.

    Thanks everyone.

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    (Luke 12:42) . . .And the Lord said: "Who really is the faithful steward, the discreet one, whom his master will appoint over his body of attendants to keep giving them their measure of food supplies at the proper time?. . .

    The common understanding of the parable of the Slave (or Steward as referred to in some Bible translations) is that they are congregational ministers.

    "Some state that the "slave" refers to Christian ministers, or their office of oversight, with responsibility to care for the spiritual needs of the congregation. The 'master's' arrival is said to be either the second coming of Christ or the death of the individual minister. Thus it is held that the parable should motivate Christian ministers to care well for what is entrusted to them." Watchtower 1981 March 1 p.24

    In Commentary on Matthew 24, Matthew Henry writes:

    "Concerning the good servant; he shows here what he is-a ruler of the household; what, being so, he should be-faithful and wise; and what, if he be so, he shall be eternally-blessed. Here are good instructions and encouragements to the ministers of Christ. First, We have here his place and office. ... The church of Christ is his household … Secondly, His right discharge of this office. The good servant, if thus preferred, will be a good steward; for, 1. He is faithful; stewards must be so, 1 Co. 4:2. He that is trusted, must be trusty; and the greater the trust is, the more is expected from them. It is a great good thing that is committed to ministers (2 Tim. 1:14); and they must be faithful, as Moses was, Heb. 3:2. Christ counts those ministers, and those only, that are faithful, 1 Tim. 1:12. A faithful minister of Jesus Christ is one that sincerely designs his master's honour, not his own; delivers the whole counsel of God, not his own fancies and conceits; follows Christ's institutions and adheres to them; regards the meanest, reproves the greatest, and doth not respect persons." http://www.blueletterBible.org/tmp_dir/c/1152349985-8615.html (July 9th 2006)

    In line with this 1 Corinthians 4:1-2 says;
    "Let a man so appraise us as being subordinates of Christ and stewards of sacred secrets of God. Besides, in this case, what is looked for in stewards is for a man to be found faithful."

  • Perry
    Perry

    Good points.

    Also, The parable of the talents shows that each believer has certain assets. Each believer is to "occupy till I come" and do business.

    Luke 19:

    13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.

    14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.

    15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.

    Jehovah's Witneses are identical in position to atheists in that they are adamant about not allowing Jesus to rule over them. Further, JW's openly reject Jesus each Memorial, are adamant about not being ambassadors of Jesus's kingdom, or being part of the Blood Covenant with Him, or even believing that the NT was written to them.

    I remember where I was standing when after being a little too excited about something I read, an elder asked me if I knew that the New Testament wasn't written to me. I said I didn't know that. He then proceeded to tell me that is was only written to Faithful and Discreet Slave, primarily, and only then had a secondary application "by extension" to the Great Crowd. I was speechless.

    The average JW will not have a clue that this parable's primary application to JW's isn't the preaching work; but, rather the group that says, "We will not have this man to reign over us."

  • Kosonen
    Kosonen

    I like that you do personal resurch. I would like to share with my resurch results:

    We have allways heard someones calling them selves "discreet and faithfull slave"? But sometimes it has been hard to understand if they really are discreet and faithful. They say that Jesus came in 1918 and approved them as discreet and faithful. Many of those were not yet born then, so could Jesus have approved them before their birth? I do not believe that. Instead Jesus said that he that has endured to the end will be saved. (Matthew 24:13) I believe that Jesus has appointed slaves to give spiritual food to other sheeps. In fact all the anointed ones are His slaves. But not all of theese slaves serve well. That is why Jesus asks Who really is the faithful and discreet slave? When somebody becames anointed I understand, then he becames appointed to give spiritual food. And later when his Master arrives he will appoint him over all his belongings. When will this happen? I believe it will be shortly before Armageddon, when the finaly approved slaves get the kingdom.

    And someting about 1914:

    In God´s holy word the bible you can find evidence that God´s Kingdom was not established in 1914. And according to the prophecies it will be estblished later in the future. And we can not calculate the time point. In Acts 1:7 the apostles asked " Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?" And in the next verse he said to them: It does not belong to you to know times or appointed times which the Father has placed under his own authority. So, Jesus did not give any hope that we could calculate when God´s Kingdom will be established.

    At the bookstudy we have also learnt about 3 woes, wich give more evidence that God´s kingdom is not yet established in heaven. We have learnt that we live in the time of the second woe, caused by the cavalry of two myriads of myriads. (Revelation 9:12-11:14) That is at the time when also the other sheep are spreading the kingdom message. This time period is quite long. This even causes a feeling of delay.( Revelation 10:6,7) The first woe brought locusts, wich symbolise anointed cristians in their symbolic 5 month preaching campain. But remark that according to the prophesy, the 3:rd woe comes with the establishement of the kingdom of God.( Revelation 11:14,15) After that the real catastrophy begins, the 3:rd woe. Satan will be hurled down to the earth.(Rev. chapter 12) That is I believe the great tribulation before Armageddon.

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