Where do atheists' morals come from?

by dorayakii 94 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Deputy Dog

  dereck

  And where does God get his morality?

  God created human morality.

  Is anything God does automatically good...

  Good for Him

  ...or does he himself adhere to some external standard of goodness?

  His standard is his own Good pleasure.

  If the latter, then there's no problem. Atheists can adhere to the same standards you imagine your god follows.

  In a sense I guess they could and do adhere to some of the same standards, but as humans we fall short of these standards. In fact we fall short of even our own standards.

  If the former, then how is that any different from "might is right"?

  In God's case (as King of everything) might is right.
• 

  BurnTheShips

  Nietzsche's caustic comment about British writer G. Eliot in The Antichrist is very interesting from this perspective:

  Contrast with the way Miguel de Unamuno expressed himself:

  We have remarked before that the parasites which live in the intestines of higher animals, feeding upon the nutritive juices which these animals supply, do not need either to see or hear, and therefore for them the visible and audible world does not exist. And if they possessed a certain degree of consciousness and took account of the fact that the animal at whose expense they live believed in a world of sight and hearing, they would perhaps deem such belief to be due merely to the extravagance of its imagination. And similarly there are social parasites, as Mr. A.J. Balfour admirably observes,[10]who, receiving from the society in which they live the motives of their moral conduct, deny that belief in God and the other life is a necessary foundation for good conduct and for a tolerable life, society having prepared for them the spiritual nutriment by which they live. An isolated individual can endure life and live it well and even heroically without in any sort believing either in the immortality of the soul or in God, but he lives the life of a spiritual parasite. What we call the sense of honour is,even in non-Christians, a Christian product. And I will say further,that if there exists in a man faith in God joined to a life of purity and moral elevation, it is not so much the believing in God that makes him good, as the being good, thanks to God, that makes him believe in Him. Goodness is the best source of spiritual clear-sightedness.

  BTS
• 

  nvrgnbk

  Looks like you agree that atheists have no morals?

  No.

  The amorality of the atheist indicates that he or she isn't obligated to follow any specific system of morality, in contrast with the believer that often consults a written religious code to make decisions.
• 

  dorayakii

  Looks like you agree that atheists have no morals?

  This is a fallacy. Atheists can be moral people and atheists can be immoral people just like everybody else. In fact the atheist countries of the world have the lowest crime rates, and the most cooperative societies. They hurt the environment the least and atheists take up the least space in US prisons in comparison with their national population. The question is not, "do atheists have morals?" but "where do their morals come from?".

  Hi dorayakii, nice to "see" you again.

  Thank you for the warm welcome Narkissos. That is a very interesting Nietzsche quote you posted. It shows that this question has been posed since the end of the 19th century, and that there were multiple answers to it.

  Is Western morality inextricably linked to Christianity, even if Christianity were to cease to exist, or can we find provable, scientific reasons to keep the moral precepts of society without undermining the very foundation of society?
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  loosie

  I don't agree. I think people are inherently good. You don't the threat of punishment to be good. You just have to want to be good.

  I have noticed that ever since I stopped being afraid of dying at armageddon, that I do good things because I want to ( for various reasons) not because I want to impress a god.
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  BurnTheShips

  And where does God get his morality? ....If the former, then how is that any different from "might is right"?

  I suppose he gets his morality from the same place has his power and knowledge. Which is to say, from Himself.

  It is no different from might is right.

  Since God's might made all that is, it is his right to define "right."

  BTS
• 

  Deputy Dog

  dorayakii

  Deputy Dog : I believe their morality comes from God through nature as even the bible teaches.

  I don't think the question can be answered so simply as "God is good, we were created in his image, therefore we are good".

  So you have a problem with Romans 1?

  I'm totaly depraved
• 

  dorayakii

  Is anything God does automatically good...

  Good for Him

  That's kind of a cop-out. Infinite regression and all that. I could just as well say that the Devil is good because he does what is good for him... Power corrupts... absolute power corrupts absolutely... and infinite power corrupts infinitely. When you're in a position of power, it doesn't automatically cause your actions to be good.
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  BurnTheShips

  No.

  The amorality of the atheist indicates that he or she isn't obligated to follow any specific system of morality, in contrast with the believer that often consults a written religious code to make decisions.

  No.

  The believer isn't obligated to follow any specific system of morality either.

  BTS
• 

  Deputy Dog

  Burn

  No, all that says is that atheism itself is amoral. It makes no moral statement regarding atheists themselves.

  I understand. That's why I ask the question. You seem to suggest that morality in simply conventional.