Need info, please?

by DJ 19 Replies latest jw friends

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  DJ

  Thank you, you have a better ear for that line than I had when I first listened to the interview. :) Of course, this wasn't a professional transcript and I did the best I could do with the limited audio.

  You are more than welcome. I understand that you transcribed it in no time flat from reading LDH's thread last night.

  My concern is that it is the same transcription is posted on the silentlambs site. The link to it is in the 2nd post of this thread. You can see by "Onthewayout"'s post (also in this thread) that it seems to have impacted his/her thinking about what Brown actually said.

  Not only did Brown answer in the negative to Lisa's question about being inspired.. but he clearly answered her separately and distinctly to the spirit- "directed" question, saying "No, we don't have anybody that makes that claim". I think that is invaluable since Jws have been (since 85) and still are, baptized into the "spirit-directed organization."

  Why am I making what may seem like a fuss..? Well, because Jws play so many word games that they could, and would, make excuses about what was said if they read the interview as it is transcribed now. I post to Jws on another discussion board and I would link them to it and ask them to read it, but as it stands now..I wouldn't. They'd twist it easily.. As a matter of fact, we just wound up a thread about Jws being baptized into the "spirit-directed org". A proper transcription would really cause them to have to give some answers. Or at the least perhaps to.. get them to think..

  I'd also like to give it to family to read.. (if they would) I am mostly shunned but I think I can get it into their hands

  If you want to contact B. Bowen that would be great because it seems that he used your transcription. If it's no big deal to you.. I'll do it, but I think it would have more validity coming from you since you transcribed it in the first place. He's a busy man and probably didn't ever actually listen to the audio.

  Sorry to be a bother, Leolaia.. but I hope you can see my point. Having only heard the tape in full yesterday, I was really floored by it. I know that with time the WT lies become cliche with the passage of time, but imho this has potential to make quite an impact on someone who "loves truth".

  Thanks. Dj
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  OnTheWayOut

  They'd twist it easily..

  That was all I was really saying. My thinking is intact. I know what Brown says and means.

  The fact is that listening to the interview, not reading a transcript, I could say that Brown
  did not lie nor did he say JW's are not claiming spirit-direction.

  I know he is misleading, but I examined it as a JW might do. I did that because I would
  know what a JW would say, and therefore I would not even bother to try to prove anything
  to them by showing them this interview. It would be a waste of time.

  I think I was clear in how a JW would give him his "outs" on his exact words. If we try to
  nail these guys on their exact words (not-in-print, especially) then the JW's see us as
  radical apostates.

  The interviewer did a fantastic job of getting Brown to say the misleading quotes, but it would
  be up to the individual to realize that he is admitting something huge or it would be up to
  the individual's cognitive dissonance to dismiss his impromptu words. Most JW's would do
  the latter.
• 

  DJ

  That was all I was really saying. My thinking is intact. I know what Brown says and means.The fact is that listening to the interview, not reading a transcript, I could say that Brown
  did not lie nor did he say JW's are not claiming spirit-direction. I know he is misleading, but I examined it as a JW might do. I did that because I would
  know what a JW would say, and therefore I would not even bother to try to prove anything
  to them by showing them this interview. It would be a waste of time. I think I was clear in how a JW would give him his "outs" on his exact words. If we try to nail these guys on their exact words (not-in-print, especially) then the JW's see us as radical apostates. The interviewer did a fantastic job of getting Brown to say the misleading quotes, but it wouldbe up to the individual to realize that he is admitting something huge or it would be up to the individual's cognitive dissonance to dismiss his impromptu words. Most JW's would do the latter.

  I agree that most die hard Jws would twist it, but I also think that they especially could, since the transcription is off. I deal with many Jws who are questioning the org. It takes years to help them to get to that place (being able to start to think again on their own) and that is what we do on that board. I have devoted my life to helping Jws on that board for over 7 years now, daily. So, I guess we're looking at this from opposite points of view. Glass half full or empty.. kind of thing? I've seen many Jws leave the org by posting to us because we hold them accountable to the scriptures and their WT lit.

  There are some there who would try to argue it, and they would have to deal with us, but there are others who would be greatly helped by it. They are the ones that I'm primarily concerned with right now. For the other die hards there.. it is a possible seed, imo. Time will tell. I have seen them make tremendous progress over the years and we can never tell what is going to be that straw that breaks the camel's back. It is different for many.

  I hope you can see where I am coming from now. I think there is a positive connection also, between his answer regarding that question and his answer regarding the "special pipleline". I am certain that it would help to heal many of our "walking wounded" there.

  Take care. :)
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  AGuest

  JWs are BIBLE STUDENTS only. The Governing Body is NOT SPIRIT INSPIRED.

  JWS as a whole are NOT INSPIRED

  JWs are not the ONLY spokesperson organization of God on earth

  THERE IS NO SPECIAL LINE TO GOD that the JW church has

  Yes, I "got" that from my interview with Mr. Barber. Nothing like seeing the fear in the eyes of an imposter. Something one doesn't ever forget.

  Peace, all!

  A slave of Christ,
  
  SA
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  yadda yadda 2

  JWs are not the ONLY spokesperson organization of God on earth

  Aguest, are you saying you heard this from an interview with Barber? Please elaborate
• 

  AGuest

  May you have peace!

  are you saying you heard this from an interview with Barber?

  Not quite. I had the privilege of meeting with Mr. Barber in 1996 when I went to Bethel to deliver a message (i.e., we don't "pay" for our sins when we die; our blood has no value and, therefore, cannot atone for our sins - only the blood of Christ can). During the discussion, Mr. Barber tried to say I had been talking with demons (because I did not try to hide my "source" from him). After I cautioned him against blaspheming, however, he became a bit offensive and said that the information only comes "through the Faithful and Discreet Slave." A "sister" accompanied me on the trip and in response to Mr. Barber's statement asked, "Isn't all of the anointed part of the [FDS]"? Rather than responding yes or no, Mr Carey sat straight up, eyes kind of bugging out and asked, "Is she of the anointed?" to which my companion, who is also, said, "Yes."

  I first though his reaction weird and his question curious. Immediately after, however, I knew Mr. Barber (if not the others as well) was not who he claimed to be and many thought he was: the FEAR in his eyes was utterly unmistakable. It is something that I will never forget as long as I live (continued mental capacity permitting). After the look of fear, I then knew that he was an absolute imposter. What was even more notable is that at the exact same time, HE knew I knew. Again, the look in his eyes betrayed him.

  After that, Mr. Barber attempted to be candid about the WT and AW... and how they were written. He told us that the GB had had nothing to do with either publication since 1972... when [they] turned everything over to the Writing Department in anticipation of 1975. He said that [they] TOLD us how the WT and AW were written... in the first video taped [they] had distributed. Later, my companion and I took a look... and lo! so it is.

  And that's it. An interview of sorts, but different from what dear Lisa experienced.

  Hope this helps... and, again, peace to you!

  Your servant and a slave of Christ,

  SA
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  yadda yadda 2

  Thanks for that Aguest. Your experience with Carey Barber raises a good point: what if the FDS disagree with each other, as they obviously do? The WTS thinks it has an absolutely monopoly on spiritual insights and 'prophesying' on scriptural truth, but that is not the case at all. There are many 'spirit-begotten' JW's and ex-JW's who hold differing opinions. Even the GB have different views, sometimes quite starkly, on certain teachings...that's why they vote and why a two-third's majority is needed on the GB to change anything. This makes the GB absolute hypocrities, as they expect 100% conformity and submission by the 'great crowd' to them, yet amongst themselves the GB often disagree. Double standards.
• 

  AGuest

  May you have peace!

  what if the FDS disagree with each other, as they obviously do?

  Hmmmm. May I ask, by "FDS" who exactly do you mean?

  The WTS thinks it has an absolutely monopoly on spiritual insights and 'prophesying' on scriptural truth, but that is not the case at all.

  Funny you say that. One of the things that got me long ago was the statement in the Proclaimer's Book, that the "clergy of Christendom" was... and I quote: "A bigoted group of men who systematically throttle all Bible teachings unless it comes from them." Ironic, ain't it? BTW - the "WTS" may not be exactly the same as the perceived "FDS."

  There are many 'spirit-begotten' JW's and ex-JW's who hold differing opinions.

  I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you here. "Spirit-begotten" ex-JWs... yes. "Spirit-begotten JWs"... no. Can't be. Why? Because although one can be CALLED while still a Jw, one has to "get out from among them and QUIT touching the "unclean thing"... and THEN they are taken in by God as sons and daughters. Is the WTS an "unclean thing"? Indeed, even a LITTLE "leaven"... ferments the WHOLE lump.

  Even the GB have different views, sometimes quite starkly, on certain teachings...that's why they vote and why a two-third's majority is needed on the GB to change anything. This makes the GB absolute hypocrities, as they expect 100% conformity and submission by the 'great crowd' to them, yet amongst themselves the GB often disagree. Double standards.

  Hence, the "leaven." Luke 12:1 I bid you the greatest of peace. A slave of Christ, SA
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  yadda yadda 2

  Aguest.

  So what is your definition of "unclean thing". If you mean a religion that teaches false teachings, then that exludes all organised religion, since they all teach false things.

  Who do you associate with?
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  AGuest

  May you have peace!

  So what is your definition of "unclean thing".

  My definition is anything that isn't, well, clean (just what does that mean??). But my definition is irrelevant: it's God's definition that matters and His includes, but is not necessarily limited to that which is not "holy" (i.e., upright and without deceit, guile, hypocrisy, falsity, deception, hate, cunning, and things like that). Very often people get all uptight over what others DO... but with God, it is MUCH more about the MOTIVE... than it is about the act.

  If you mean a religion that teaches false teachings, then that exludes all organised religion, since they all teach false things.

  I think "false" is the operative word here. That word is not to be confused with the words ignorant or misled, however.

  Who do you associate with?

  If you mean in general, then, I "associate" with all kinds of folks, including those here - God is not partial and neither am I. If you mean spiritually, I would have to say all kinds of folks, too, as my association here includes a bit of both, and I spiritually associate outside of this place, as well.

  If you mean what "church" or "religion" do I belong to, I would have to say none, at least not in the manner that I think you mean. I AM the "church"... the "congregation"... as are ALL those of the body of Christ. We, together, make up the "congregation" of the Firstborn. We are "living stones" in the "house" that Christ is building and which God occupies... by spirit. Christ is the foundation, the apostles the foundation cornerstone, the Prophets and others pillars... and we, stone. I "associate," therefore, with those of these whom I have come to know, either directly or indirectly, on occasion in flesh as well as in spirit. We do not "gather" in buildings made with hands, per se, for God does not dwell in handmade buildings. He dwells in us. We are His "temple."

  We, do, however, visit each other in our homes from time to time (usually, a couple times a year, for those who can make the effort - some can't/don't for various and understandable reasons); more often than not, however, we "speak" by phone, email, snail mail, etc. (we don't all live in close proximity to one another). Whether we are together in the flesh... or in spirit... however, is irrelevant. Wherever two or more of us ARE gatherered, our Lord is there also (and yes, his presence is manifest, although not visible).

  These days, we live in an environment where we don't necessarily have to literally "gather" in the flesh. Due to modern technology, we can "gather" by other means... and we do so, when we can. This is actually wonderful, because we don't have to wait for anyone to arrive personally, or communicate with us by letter. We can talk to, encourage and lift up one another at almost any time of any day, praise Jah!

  I hope that answered your question, dear Yadda, and the greatest of love and peace to you!

  Your servant and a slave of Christ,

  SA