by Lantana 36 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
and seven:
Among all those baptized the youngest was a seven-year-old boy, the oldest an eighty-seven-year-old woman. A one-legged man was baptized. The sun shone genially as the mass baptism carried on into the noon hour. - The WATCHTOWER, March 1, 1956
There's one other scenario not touched upon. If the girl is not baptised, and her father holds any responsibilities in the congregation, there's nothing that the organization can do to her, but her father will likely quietly kick her to the curb to save himself the embarassment of having to explain to the elder body why he's not lording over his house in a fine manner. I've seen that done many a time. One girl was I know was bought a plane ticket to distant family North without even a coat to keep her warm.
A few years ago a six-year old girl was baptized in the Chicago area at a convention.
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w968/1p.21KeepingEyesandHeartFixedonthePrize***In 1934, Mom and Dad were baptized. I too wanted to get baptized, and I kept insisting until Mother asked an older Witness to talk with me about it. He asked many questions in a manner that I could understand. Then he told my parents that I should not be prevented from being baptized; it might harm my spiritual growth. So I was baptized the following summer, when I was still six.
but probably not a four- or five-year-old:
Should parents of retarded children feel that baptism is in all cases a requirement for children to be viewed by God as worthy of his protection in times of judgment, as in the foretold "great tribulation"? The degree of retardation is clearly a determining factor, since some of such children remain with the mentality of a four- or five-year-old even when fully grown. The child may be able to grasp certain basic teachings of God’s Word and repeat these when asked. He (or she) may be obedient to the parents and abstain from doing certain things that have been pointed out as wrong and contrary to God’s will. But is the child able to make personal decisions, able to decide from his own mind and heart (not that of the parents) the course in life he wishes to take? Is he capable of comprehending and seeking a personal relationship with God, one that is not dependent upon his parents? Is he able to stand before a judicial body, accountable for any wrongdoing he may commit? If not, then such child is evidently not in position to be baptized but would continue under family merit in God‘s eyes, counted by him as "holy" in that sense. - The Watchtower, September 15, 1976
How heart-warming to know that a seven year old is able to stand before a judicial committee!
Will we someday read,
"Two-year-old Lisa explains how she came to appreciate the value of purposeful study and meditation: “After my baptism in 1994, I was quite active in the truth for about two years. I attended all the Christian meetings, devoted from 30 to 40 hours per month to the field ministry, and associated with fellow Christians. Then I started to drift away, distracted by Sponge Bob Squarepants." - the Watchtower, sometime, somewhere
I was 17 when I got pregnant and I was baptized at age 13. They were going to df me until my dad took me outside and threatend me that if I didn't show some respect and repentance and they df'd me he would through me out of the house. That was always his weapon, I'll kick you out of this house if you don't.........
So I went back in cried alot, said I'm sorry I'll do whatever you want me to (including promising to never see the baby's father again). They reprooved me and I guess I'm still on reproof 25 years later cause I left when I turned 18. Can you be on reproof for 25 years
My dad had to step down as an elder and mom stopped pioneering.
nj
Back to my example, suppose this girl of 16 was Baptized, told her parents she was pregnant and was disfellowshipped by the organisation. Are there examples of parents overriding the organisation, or is it simply get disfellowshipped -- have the baby -- then get reinstated if repentant? If the parents wish to control it instead and rail against the rules, are they given the boot too?
It's highly unlikely the parents will have a say. If she's baptized she stands as an individual before the judicial committee and if her parents kicked up a fuss there'd be repercussions for them. Even if she is disfellowshipped it is within the realms of possibility that the parents will continue to house and care for their daughter and grandchild, although being kicked out the house is also a possibility if the parents are hardliners. In my experience, grandchildren permit JWs to be more lenient in shunning, although not always.
If a witless becomes pregnant (and is not married), that generally amounts to fornication. There may be exceptions, such as if someone is raped while incapacitated and the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger has a current stand that it is not currently the victim's fault at the time of the incident).
To them, fornication appears to be the most serious sin one could commit (second, of course, to apostasy). I judge that from the amount of time and energy they devote to preventing people from having access to any opportunities to do it. If you are baptized, you will face a judicial committee and, if they decide you are not repentant, you will get disfellowshipped. If you are not baptized, it will hold you back from baptism. If you are an unbaptized publisher, you will lose that "privilege".
It really doesn't matter whether it is with a worldly person or another witless (though if another witless, there will be two people hauled up to the back room instead of just one). Marrying the person you did fornication with generally will not stop them from disfellowshipping you, and that is doubly so with a worldly person. You will be ordered to stop seeing each other (if you are both witlesses) to show "repentance". If it's a worldly person, you will have to give up all contact except getting them into the cancer to prove repentance.
To me, the whole business is hogwash. The only thing I can see about fornication is that, if you have a baby, it's your responsibility for the next 18 years (and in some countries, it's 21). And there is the risk of catching a disease (though that can be offset by reduced risk of other diseases if the sex stimulates your immune system). Other than that, they are really creating major problems where no problem should exist.
this happened to my sis-in-law....she wasn't disfellowshipped ...rather she was marked....she was also encouraged not to marry the guy....she did marry him.....no witnesses went to the wedding except close family....she is now gung ho for Jehovah again....and her marriage is a living hell.......ninja
I fell pregnant at 18 and was not baptised, I had a JC and was not allowed to do any field ministry for about 8 months, after that I faithfully atttended all meetings and bible study, they allowed me to get baptised when baby was 11months old. I had my cards marked and never had any close friends, i was not invited to anything and was shown no loving kindness. I was ENCOURAGED to marry the father who was not a JW so dont know why that was.
anyway I left when my little one was nearly five, when the two congos that shared the hall, a pioneer sister organised a picnic, and everyone was invited apart from me and my little girl, I was aux pioneer at the time, their reason for not inviting me........ my little girl was not a good assoiciate......... i left the witnesses two months later, still being an aux pioneer when i left.
