Blondie and/or Leolaia...I have a question

by BONEZZ 29 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • undercover
    undercover

    If you believe in the Bible and all that...

    God created Jesus as firstborn of all creation.

    God created all the angels of heaven, thus making all the angels brothers(sorry, no girl angels) and Jesus is big brother to all of them.

    Jesus is the good son who went to college, starred on the football team and debate team, married the homecoming queen and took over the company business. Satan is the bad son who dropped out of school and joined the Hell's Angels (I just kill me sometimes) and took to a life of crime.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    so in telling the prodigal son parable, was jesus telling satan that his dad will have "no hard feelings" if he wants to come back to the fold?

  • Atlantis
    Atlantis

    1975 Man's Salvation Out Of World Distress p.208

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    Here are some more mixups

    Wormwood

      Revelation 8:10-11 "And the third angel blew his trumpet. And a great star burning as a lamp fell from heaven, and it fell upon a third of the rivers and upon the fountains of waters. 11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood. And a third of the waters turned into wormwood, and many of the men died from the waters, because these had been made bitter."

    There have been three different versions of 'God given light' in the Watchtower publications so far;

      1. Calvin
        "Calvin is entitled to the honor of having at one time been a papal star .... Is called Wormwood. -- What an ideal name for the doctrine which has caused more bitterness against God than any other doctrine ever taught, and for the man who roasted Servetus at the stake" Studies in the Scriptures Series VII- The Finished Mystery p.151
      2. Satan
        "The 'great star' falling from heaven as a burning lamp was Satan .... The name of this star is called 'Wormwood', which means bitter. Being cast out of heaven Satan is in the 'gall of bitterness'" Light I pp.126, 127
      3. Clergy of Christedom
        "In view of these features about it. what religious class of people could this blazing, falling 'great star' picture but the apostate Christian clergy of Christendom, Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant and otherwise sectarian? . . . But what should have been spiritual 'water' to sustain the spiritual life of the peoples, the apostate Christian clergy have turned into undrinkable, deadly, bitter wormwood waters…false, pagan, unchristian, unbiblical doctrines …" Then is Finished the Mystery of God pp.224, 225
    Michael the Archangel

    Michael the Archangel is described in Daniel 10:13 as "Mi´cha·el, one of the foremost princes" and at Revelation 12:7 it says " Mi´cha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled." In the fifty years between 1880 and 1930 there were five changes as to who Michael was.

      1. An Angel that worships Jesus
        "Hence it is said, "Let all the angels of God worship him;" [that must include Michael, the chief angel, hence Michael is not the Son of God] and the reason is, because He has "by inheritance obtained a more excellent Name than they." " Zion's Watch Tower 1879 November p.4
      2. The Pope and Antichrist
        "Michael and his angels"--the papacy and its supporters--fought against the dragon--pagan rulers, etc.,-- and the great dragon was cast out of heaven. Zion's Watch Tower 1879 December p.6
      3. Michael was the pre-human Jesus Christ
        "Can it be that he who was called Michael--Jehovah's chief-messenger--was none other than our Lord in his pre-human condition? … we conclude that HE must have been "chief messenger." " Zion's Watch Tower 1883 June p.3
      4. The Pope again
        "Michael.--- "Who as God," the Pope." The Finished Mystery 1917 p.188
      5. Jesus in heaven
        Since the 1930's Michael is explained to be the heavenly name for Jesus.
        "For many years Jehovah's Witnesses have taught that Michael is a heavenly name for the only-begotten Son of God, who was named Jesus while on earth." Watchtower 1984 December 15 p.26
  • Atlantis
    Atlantis

    (Credit goes to Nathan Natas) Watchtower-1975-October-1-p.600 N.

  • BONEZZ
    BONEZZ

    Thanks to all of you. We've really got some good researchers on this board. My only other questions are...Was Freddy wearing his aluminum foil hat when he was writing this stuff? And...Does Jesus have two different American Express cards? One for heaven & one for earth.

    -BONEZZ

  • JCanon
    JCanon
    The argument was that originally Jesus had a companion Morning Star, who was cast out, so by the end of the Bible there is only jesus.

    More than just companions, husband and wife. Satan and Jesus were considered as married as the two covering cherubs. One was Satan, the other Jesus. The churh thus replaces Satan in this place of holiness as God's temple on Holy Mount Zion. Thus the church is not the first wife Jesus had. That means that when God told Jesus, "I will put enmity between you and the Woman (Satan) and between your seed and her seed" Jesus was getting divorced and Satan her walking papers.

    Interesting that Christian commentary doesn't depict Satan as a female, but it is common in Christian artwork. Satan is even a woman in the Sistine Chapel...

    http://www.christusrex.org/www1/sistine/6-Serpent.jpg

    JC

  • JCanon
    JCanon

    God created all the angels of heaven, thus making all the angels brothers(sorry, no girl angels) and Jesus is big brother to all of them.

    Jesus is the good son who went to college, starred on the football team and debate team, married the homecoming queen and took over the company business. Satan is the bad son who dropped out of school and joined the Hell's Angels (I just kill me sometimes) and took to a life of crime.

    Actually, that realtionship between Jesus and Satan was more a husband and wife relationship. Satan is called the "woman" at Genesis 3:15.

    So the actual emotions are that of a jealous woman. Jesus really fell in love with MANkind and Satan got jealous and decided to murder them. This was very upsetting, but seing as how Jesus was so head over heells in love with mankind, Jesus' next wife was made of humans from the earth. Jesus first wife was Satan. His new rival wife is the church made up of mankind. That's closer to what really is going on.

    JC

  • Fadeout
    Fadeout

    Wow that is interesting, I never even knew about that flip-flop. Into the WT file you go. Thanks guys!

    The Finished Mystery also mixed up Jesus and Satan. The angel of the abyss is now taught to be Jesus, but TFM taught it was the Devil, and went so far as to make a play on the angel's name, Abaddon, saying, "and he is 'a bad one,' sure enough."

    I believe the official excuse is that they simply meant that Jesus is "badass," in a complimentary way.

  • JCanon
    JCanon

    I don't think Fred Franz was confused, just too close to the material. He was relating the mustard seed to the weeds that Satan planted in the field. Only in the case of the mustard tree there is no dualistic comparison, unlike the dragnet, the field of wheat and weeds, the flock with sheep and goats, etc.

    Without the contrast of good and bad, though, the parable about the loaves and the mustard tree are awkward in association with Christ comparing it to the kingdom.

    I think Christ's focus was that it would start very, very small, just as leaven is very little but can leaven the entire loaf. Likewise, the kingdom would start very, very small, with one man and then eventually become a huge entity where many birds would find lodging. This can also represent the kingdom in relation to an individual. How it starts with something very small and then it grows and grows into a huge, strong faith. "He who is faithful in little is faithful in much."

    As far as the understanding of the other parables, the WTS is so clueless I don't even want to bother explakning what the true applications are beyond noting, as we can see, they don't make all that much sense. Franz was too anti-Catholic anti-Christendom oriented. You can't apply everything to Christendom vs JW scenario.

    JC

    JC

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