the TRUTH about DISFELLOWSHIPPING and SHUNNING from JESUS view

by Terry 51 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Mary
    Mary
    If this were true in Jesus' own words---how can a body, group, organization condemn your friend, brother, wife, son, daughter ON YOUR BEHALF and order you to NOT forgive them?

    The main thing I love about this board are the simple statements such as this one, that makes you stop and go "Whoa! That's a damn good point!"

    Terry, that's a damn good point and one I'm going to include in the information package I'm doing up on the WTS.

    There's also another excellent site that deals with the whole shunning BS that the WTS practices: http://www.xjw.com/shunning.html

  • Terry
    Terry

    Consider this a sidebar to the above topic.

    Christianity struggles with two schools of teaching: JESUS and PAUL.

    I think, personally, PAUL is the father of modern Christianity and not JESUS.

    It should properly be termed PAULIANITY.

    Many things cannot be reconciled between Jesus as the bringer of forgiveness, equality of standing and mercy-----and----Paul, the legalist nitpicker who treats women, homosexuals and Jews and Gentiles differently. Paul sees God as playing favorites. Jesus sees all of mankind as WORTH his sacrifice no matter how dear.

    JW's love Paul and find Jesus prickly, indeed.

    Paul is everywhere and Jesus is....well....the implied silent partner.

  • Terry
    Terry
    If this were true in Jesus' own words---how can a body, group, organization condemn your friend, brother, wife, son, daughter ON YOUR BEHALF and order you to NOT forgive them?

    The main thing I love about this board are the simple statements such as this one, that makes you stop and go "Whoa! That's a damn good point!"

    Terry, that's a damn good point and one I'm going to include in the information package I'm doing up on the WTS.

    Thank you, I certainly thought it was a NEW POINT.

    I will keep on asking where the committee members get the power to prevent others from forgiving somebody. Where does anybody get the right to tell you you cannot pray for somebody?

    Where did Jesus ever say, "This sinner you must not pray for or ever forgive"?

    The hubris is amazing!

    Each of us has a personal responsibility TO FORGIVE over and over again. Nobody should remove that privilege from us.

    We are judged according to how WE judge others. We are judged BY THE SAME STANDARD that we judge others. IF we allow a small group of power-crazed self-appointed judges to wrest from us our personal responsibility to forgive----we are saying we judge others by PROXY!

    How does this show mercy? How does this show appreciation for mercy and loving kindness if we are NOT EVEN PRESENT WHEN THE DISCUSSION TAKES PLACE?

    The meetings take place behind closed doors. The congregation is deaf and dumb to the proceedings. Yet, they are expected to rubber stamp the rulings by others without listening to testimony, viewing evidence or hearing both sides of an argument!!

    To rubber stamp such a decision and to make oneself a party to the judgement carried out is disgraceful and anti-Christian mercy.

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    dear Terry...

    "The stray sheep is not disfellowshipped. The stray sheep disfellowships ITSELF.

    The Shepherd will not abide the straying! The Shepherd knows the safety of the one stray is EQUAL IN VALUE to the safety of the remaining flock!

    Stop and think about that equation!"

    where does this leave the parent who, because of dissatisfaction or disillusion with "Christianity", snatches their child from the greater "flock" of the Shepherd?...

    love michelle

    p.s. Matthew 19:14

  • Terry
    Terry

    where does this leave the parent who, because of dissatisfaction or disillusion with "Christianity", snatches their child from the greater "flock" of the sheperd?...

    love michelle

    We stand alone before God.

    If we allow others to think for us, judge for us, limit us to who we can and cannot love and forgive or hate and shun--we give up what makes us unique. We become a thing and not a person; a tool for others without a mind.

    A child has a unique status in society. A child is expected to be their own person____some day___yet, a restraint is placed upon that child under the custody of the parent.

    Society and law assumes the child's best interest are sought by the parent. If it should be demonstrated convincingly that the child is in jeopardy---steps are taken to remove the child from the aberrant parent and a substitute custody is awarded.

    In the case you cite above----A parent who leaves the congregation for cause has made a decision for themselves and their child's well-being.

    If it is a decision made in good conscience with informed judgement it should be an improvement and not an oversight.

    But, the mothers in the Mormon compound were certainly spiritual minded people whose personal consciences had been short-circuited by indoctrinations. The individuals ceased to be individuals. They became drones for those in power who wielded scriptural authority in bad faith.

    The JW's who allow their children to die by refusing necessary medical procedures demonstrate that a corporate judgement cannot replace the individual conscience or disastrous consequences will follow.

    That is why each of us has a brain and a moral imperative to make our own decisions regardless of the claim to authority made by others.

    Parents have a double imperative to make the best informed decisions rationally and without prejudice.

    I hope this answers your question.

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    dear Terry...

    no, that doesn't answer my question...but brings up another two to answer...lol

    let's say ones thoughts and feelings on God have been tainted by the experience of the JW "religion"...seeing the error in their theology they chose to remove them self from that "religion". However after having studied the Bible and words of Christ for many years and learning the "correct way" of Christianity, they choose to keep their children from the Great Shepherd.

    Would that be a means of protecting them, in your estimation? And from what/whom?

    love michelle

  • heathen
    heathen

    I would agree that the shunning is supposed to instill fear and perhaps humility but if you are DF'd you really did something to deserve it ,more than likely . They really don't want you to promote your opinion over the WTBTS dogma for one thing and if you wrecked your home by committing adultery then you are setting a very bad example , that sort of reasoning is used . Give us some examples of people you feel were Df'd for very petty reasons then you might have an argument . Under the FDS dogma they give themselves the right to act judicially in these type of things as being appointed over the sheep .All J-dubs swear allegiance to them at baptism .

  • Quentin
    Quentin
    All J-dubs swear allegiance to them at baptism .

    That's true now...Terry comes from a time and place when you swore allegiance to Jehovah and Christ Jesus...seems to me that is "a point" of his argument...the FDS has de-facto usurped Jesus as head of the Christian congergation...

    As to df, no matter how you cut the pie...it aien't right...if a person claims to follow Christ, that is...examples of petty df's are talked about all the time on this board...the whole df doctrin is about power, that's it...

  • M.J.
    M.J.

    Someone asked about how some other fundamentalist churches handle this issue.
    Here's a news article that came up a while ago:

    (sorry it's not clickable.. You'll have to copy/paste it in your browser)

    http://www.religionnewsblog.com/20385/shunning

  • M.J.
    M.J.

    Whatever the argument from the Christ angle, there's no getting around the fact that Paul advocated the practice in some form.

    I think that the JW version is wrong because it turns elders into congregational law enforcement, judges and jury.

    It isn't about congregational law enforcement, it's about not condoning immorality, greed, idolatry, slander, drunkenness, or swindling. The situation that brought this up was the fact that one of the "brothers" was sleeping with his stepmother and the congregation was giving him props for it. This guy was leading the rest of the congregation in the wrong direction. So Paul goes over to recommend some housecleaning and removing people who have no regard for what Christianity stands for. Who to purge was a decision to be reached by the whole congregation. Not a "judicial committee" decision.

    Most of all, it has nothing to do with policing thought or asserting a hierarchical authority structure.

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