the TRUTH about DISFELLOWSHIPPING and SHUNNING from JESUS view

by Terry 51 Replies latest jw experiences

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  Fatfreek

  Burn, your argument does not pass muster. Terry, or anyone, has the right to argue anything he wishes -- and we have the right to rebut those arguments with our own.

  To attack Terry on items not related to his arguments is called an ad hominen attack. I assure you that in an open and fair forum you really don't want to do that.

  We ethically don't have the right to attack Terry because of what he may, or may not, have going on at times inside his head. Fact is, it's none of my business or yours.

  Now think about this: While the Society has its own team of lawyers, it obviously does not meet all its defense needs. Therefore, they are known to frequently use hired hands, contractors, attorneys in private practice who are not Jehovah's Witnesses. Can you imagine how ludicrous it would be for the judge, or the opposing team of attorneys, to somehow object to the fact that the WT team of attorneys are not JWs? "How can you represent the Watchtower Society when you, yourselves, are not JWs, that you may not even have their belief of no blood transfusions? They'd be laughing stock.

  Len Miller
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  heathen

  I don't think the JW dis fellowship over just any type of offense .If something serious such as adultery , apostasy ,murder . They do over look the error if you will sit there like an idiot for six months while being ignored .I've read many a testimony of people getting away with all kinds of transgression with little or no recourse , of course depends on who you are related to in the area.
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  searchingforfriends

  Seems like all you have to do in order to not get DF'd for some "serious" sin is say you're repentant and have seen the error of your ways (you don't have to mean it though) and then go to all meetings and some FS for a while. It doesn't matter what you've done or whom you've hurt, you can get out of it with those simple actions AND your victims are supposed to just forgive you. I know this from seeing those around me work the system so to speak.

  So there you have it empty apology + meeting attendance = gross sins being washed away.
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  SirNose586

  So for you talk about the views of a man that you don't believe , whose attributed writings you don't credit, and whose historic legacy you scoff at, and use them as rule to establish correct conduct in the JWs is ludicrous.

  Way to set up the strawman, ships! Consistency is the argument here, not authenticity. It doesn't matter if we're talking about Jesus, Buddha, or the White Rabbit. If someone initiates a system of morals, it would make sense for their closest followers to adhere to the precepts of the lifestyle. Terry is arguing that the Society doesn't follow Jesus' guidelines on forgiveness, not whether he exists.
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  odie67

  I know someone who was df'd for smoking. The person was really having a hard time quiting. Mercy? nope.

  Terry your raise some excellent points.

  I don't think DF helps the person at all. Most people if they come back it's to be with their family and friends. It has nothing to do with repentance.
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  LouBelle

  I've been out of the faith for only 3 years and already the JW teachings are becoming blurred. The way the view it is that those that refuse to come into line with Gods' organisation show an attitude of unrepentance and when you forsake the organisation you are like a dog that goes back to it's own vomit - they then use that scripture that speaks about "not even associating with such a man" (for the life of me I can't remember it.

  And it's not a teaching of Christs' - but being indoctrinated means you have to take what you are fed.
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  fifi40

  Burn

  I think if you thought about what you asked Terry for a short while, you could come up with the answer yourself.

  Whilst Terry may not share your devotion to a belief in God or Jesus he too was once a JW. He has lived that experience and like many of us on here realises the error of that decision. If he wishes to causes people who continue to still be influenced by this religion to THINK; what harm is there. You dont have to believe in something to have information, knowledge and experience of it.

  Fi
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  reniaa

  We talk about jesus forgiving sins but look at him talking to the woman about to be stoned for adultery, did he just say you are forgiven and let her then carry on? no he told her to stop sinning.

  << John 8:11 >>

  ---

  New American Standard Bible(©1995)
  She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more."

  King James Bible
  She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

  So the question is what would jesus feel towards those that want to sin continuously? Him turning over the money tables in the the temple comes to mind?

  For me disfellowshiping is a big issue that needs more exploration than just saying we should forgive everything especially as you get weird contradictions with it, people condeming JW's for disfellowshiping but then condemning them for reinstating someone after they've done their time at the back at the congregation, I guess my real question is how would we do it differently/better.

  Some religions just say do a prayer or a few hail mary's and your forgiven, so the poor priest mostly sits in a confessional while people put forth their weekly sins for forgiveness, no real effort to actually stop sinning by their religions definition.

  Other christian religions have just given up and no longer practise any kind of restrictions on their members just saying prayer to God and love conquers all etc.

  Others like Jw's are still extremely strict in following the bible teachings and condemning sinning although they don't use the word disfellowshipping, hmmm i don't know much on fundemental christian religions in america, how do they deal with sinners etc?
• 

  carla

  reniaa, Yes, Jesus did say 'sin no more' however we never hear if she did or didn't do we? Obviously she did 'sin more' of some sort as she was only human. Most Christians I know who go to a church are not so concerned with the specks in their neighbors eyes, they are too busy trying to pull out logs from their own eyes. In my opinion jw's and other's that practice extreme shunning seem to run around looking for the sins of others while they try their darndest to keep their own hidden. Such is human nature. What does that produce in a cong? Paranoia, lying, and immaturity. Much like when you have a number of small children and there is always one that is trying to get the attention and thought the best by the adults, in jw's you have people tattling on each other for thinking and other sins. Why? is it really out of jw love so they can get closer to jah? or is it more of a 'I have to tow the line so do you, I'm telling' or a little of both?

  In some churches they actually have a support set up for those who want and need help. For instance in one church a man & wife went to minister because of infideltity on his part. They both agreed to go and see what the minister had to say, not to be forgiven by the minister as the sin was not against him. The minister set up counseling for the couple and the husband agreed to have a 'buddy' or a few that he would also be accountable to. They would be available to talk if he felt 'the urge', they would call him and make sure he was where he said he was going to be. They had a whole program available to the couple as individuals and as a couple.

  Christians I know who contact their minister about some sort of sin do not expect 'forgiveness' from the minister just help in understanding that God will forgive. Jw's are so similar to Catholics in this context I think jw's, even some ex jw's cannot understand that most Christians go to the Source for forgiveness not men.

  Nice job Terry.
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  Anti-Christ

  I agree with Terry. The point of disfellowshipping is not about mercy but punishment. It is not love or protection because we are all individuals and according to the Christian belief system you are going to be judge by your actions so why does an organisation takes the right to force a decision on someone else? The only reason is for the protection of that organisation and to create fear in the followers. It's all about control.