by CaptainSchmideo 48 Replies latest jw friends
many of you have very good points,,
i must say, though, for me, it has brought back a bit of anxiety, the secrecy,,,the double talk.....god's laws to supercede caesars laws....etc
being a mother and being in the mind frame of denying my child blood due to god's laws,,,,well all of this just bothers me,,,
just my 2cents
orb
Make no mistake, I am not "for" child abuse. My discomfort is in how this is being handled by the government.
And if you knew me personally, you would know that I am no "Reaganite." I find that quite laughable to be called that. I haven't trusted the government since Nixon said "I am not a crook!". Even at 10 years old, I could smell bovine excrement...
And if you knew me personally, you would know that I am no "Reaganite." I find that quite laughable to be called that. I haven't trusted the government since Nixon said "I am not a crook!". Even at 10 years old, I could smell bovine excrement...
Then don't quote him like you are one. The US government makes mistakes yes but it does it's job. The government is the only thing keeping the US from becoming like Afghanistan or worse Somalia. Now presidents I don't trust, just like I don't trust kings or CEOs.
This is a hugely important case - it will set legal precedents for the next 50 or more years.
It will emerge as key to define terms such as, "safe," "abuse," "wife," "husband," "marriage," "persuasion," "loyalty," "faith," and "rights." There will have to be a separate lexicon to encompass the perverted definitions of these common words so that when an LDS member utters them it can be understood in their unique context and judged accordingly.
It will be crucial to determine that "safe" is not just fed, clothed, clean and schooled - it will encompass the bigger picture of "safe" - that children can be in danger of grooming - to either be future perpetrators or future victims.
The female children are groomed to become 'wives' - actually sexual partners or breeders - not partners in the usual sense of wife, husband or spouse who share a life and parental responsibilities. In practical, economic terms, women in the LDS culture are the "supply" and men are the "demand." Since men can have mulitple wives, but women can only have one husband, young men are a drag on this particular economy. They are frequently elbowed out of the food chain in no uncertain terms - even driven to the edge of town at a certain age and told - "Good luck. Don't come back. This is your penance."
At the same time, older men who have the wherewithal to contribute materially to the church can be rewarded with mulitple, select young women as 'wives.'
I fervently hope that the legal system can overcome the machinations sure to be invoked in the name of 'religious freedom' and triumph over this evil cult on behalf of the many generations to come who otherwise will be first victims and then perpetators and perpetuators of this unholy rape of children's souls.
Do you REALLY believe the "State" is being 100% truthful on this?
Warlock
But you feel that you can trust faceless bureacracies? Why the difference?
This is a hugely important case - it will set legal precedents for the next 50 or more years.
BB....I so agree. One of those residuals from this case may be a new definition of what marriage is. With the
gay marriage issue in the forefront now, I've heard arguments that if homosexuals get to be legally married, then it's
just a matter of time before polygamists argue that they, too, are being discriminated against when it comes to
marriage.
This case has multiple layers and the process should be allowed to go forward carefully, methodically, and judicially.
It will affect many many issues as Bizzy Bee said.
what causes Mothers to stop protecting their children in favor of a man? It's been proven again and again. Some women just stop thinking for themselves and refuse to protect their children in favor of the vices of a man
Absolutely blows your mind, doesn't it?
I mean, what is it about a man that women will actually turn the lives of their children over to? I don't get it. Never have. Never will.
One word, IN MY OPINION, describes them: weak.
And each second that goes by , FOR THEIR TRAPPED CHILDREN, they become even weaker.
It's time they get off their pity pots and start absolutely protecting their children from these TYPES of men.
JWDAUGHTER and CARLA:
sKally
fervently hope that the legal system can overcome the machinations sure to be invoked in the name of 'religious freedom' and triumph over this evil cult on behalf of the many generations to come who otherwise will be first victims and then perpetators and perpetuators of this unholy rape of children's souls
But thats another point - it isn't just this cult.
Why is it that any time an act is committed in the name of religion, it automatically receives a wink and a nod whereas if the same act is committed by let's say an atheist, it's given a whole other penalty?
If for example, we were to take 5,000 Witness kids who died because their parents using religion as their buffer, refused to allow them blood transfusions and put them in the news, we get a lot of shaking heads in sympathy but not much in the way of legal action. It's a religious action. Take those same 5,000 kids and put them in a country where they were denied blood transfusions simply because that's what a bunch of parents or city officials wanted - that becomes murder and/or possibly genocide. The end result is a dead child but because it's tied to a religious belief, it's somehow okay.
We storm the gates of the polygamist compound and remove 400 kids because there is a possibility of abuse - but nobody storms the churches and halls where every day submission is being taught, secrets are being held and punishment is being inflicted on their members. JW's teach absolute shunning which tears families apart and leads to suicide, depression and isolation for people. We have the blood policy. We have people encouraged to live in poverty, brainwashed into believing education is wrong, isolated within communities, marrying only in the religion, a people who detest government and don't support their country, women who are forced into submission in the way they dress, their association with others, their inability to spiritually divorce etc, kids being forced into submission by brainwashing and punishment and fear of shunning....the list goes on - and I'm sure you can see the similarities between the Society and the FLDS. We see the compound and scream bloody murder but who storms and exposes every other cult?
This is a ground breaking case which I'm sure will be the reference point in many legal arguments over the coming years. It may very well set the way this country thinks as far as defining what is a religion and what is not. Polygamist have a spiritual marriage and so if one has not legally filed their marriage in the State then there is no legal offense and these all become single parents with kids and their 'husbands' are in fact just the 'father of their children'. My understanding is that if one of these women refuses her husband or leaves, she has broken that spiritual bond and will suffer eternal damnation and shunning. Hmmmm....as a Witness if one of the couple break the marriage bond, only fornication serves as the cause for divorce else the divorce although legal in the country remains illegal in the eyes of the cult. If you remarry in accordance to the law of the land - you can still expect expulsion and punishment aka shunning from that community because you are charged with adultery. That punishment includes the loss of children, parents, siblings, friends and employment - sometimes a persons whole life. sammieswife.
Indeed it is a delicate legal balance between separation of church and state,
the right to privacy, protection of human rights, child endangerment issues, and
the list goes on and on. The legal arguments may go on for years! I have to wonder
who is going to pay for the legal fees of the women....the FLDS leaders? They are
going to need every penny to defend their own a**es.
Maybe the question, "does a parent have the fundamental right to indoctrinate/brainwash their
children into a cult which teaches doctrines that can physically, psychologically, and
emotionally damage their children", will finally be answered. This may finally open the door
to bring charges against the WTS's policy of shunning those who leave the org in the years to
come. I'm sure the WTS and/or Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses will be watching
the unfolding of this case carefully. They better!
