Was Jesus really without sin?

by Terry 35 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Terry

  Was Jesus really without sin? Well, Terry, awhile ago, you recommended a book to read, "Misquoting Jesus". I read that book and it gave me insight into how the writer's have made mistakes and changes that shaped the Bible we read today.

  So, what to believe about anything written concerning Jesus' words and actions gives one pause. Who can actually answer your question from hearsay information that may not have happened at all?

  Thanks for recommending the book.

  Blueblades

  You are most welcome.

  I only wish I'd had that book when I first started studying with my JW friend Johnny, way back when.

  Bart Ehrman is uniquely qualified to write about the state of the art which produced scripture. Starting out as an inerrantist fundamentalist he soon awakened to the fact not was all as presented to him!

  Today, Ehrman is agnostic. He is respected by the religious community because he doesn't go on the attack. He lets the chips fall, however, where they may.

  Incidentally, Ehrman writes about how the entire story of Jesus helping the woman who was about to be stoned for adultry is a bogus addition by later copyists. Embarassing, I'd say.
• 

  Terry

  I remember a brother Joe Tosti in my local Kingdom Hall making a comment in the meeting once.

  He asked aloud the rhetorical question, "Do you know why Jesus was able to cry "My God, My God why hast thou forsaken me?" and why Jehovah had, indeed, forskaen him?"

  We waited and Joe gave his own answer:

  "Because, Jesus was filthy with the sins of the world in the sight of God. He had taken them upon himself and became disgusting in the sight of God, his father."

  That was a startling statement to hear. But, it did make us all wonder....

  The whole question of "sin" is neatly summed up when we consider one simple fact:

  SIN IS ENTIRELY IN GOD'S MIND.

  He decides.

  Kind of like sexual harassment laws. If a woman thinks you are sexually harassing her, then, YOU ARE! Your intentions don't count!

  God condemns based on God's internal mindset. God ignores sins , too, when He so choses. God even disregards sin when He chooses.

  The most important issue to mankind is simply decided upon a whim!

  I find this a bit troubling.
• 

  BurnTheShips

  Bart Ehrman is uniquely qualified to write about the state of the art which produced scripture. Starting out as an inerrantist fundamentalist he soon awakened to the fact not was all as presented to him!

  Today, Ehrman is agnostic. He is respected by the religious community because he doesn't go on the attack. He lets the chips fall, however, where they may.

  Incidentally, Ehrman writes about how the entire story of Jesus helping the woman who was about to be stoned for adultry is a bogus addition by later copyists. Embarassing, I'd say.

  Ehrman's dilemma reminds me of a quote from "Lord of the Rings."

  Gandalf reminds Saruman that,

  He who breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.
  
  Bible scholarship isn't about lining the old texts to see how well they match up but learn from it's wisdom and spiritual truth. Ehrman misses the big picture.

  Just about every Christian Bible out there has this portion in brackets. Ehrman's assertions are nothing new.

  Ehrman debated William Lane Craig in 2006 on: "Is There Historical Evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus?"

  I haven't read the full debate but I understand that Ehrnman lost that one.

  http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/p96.htm

  No doubt this is why Ehrman does not want the debate published.

  Burn
• 

  myelaine

  dear Terry...

  "SIN IS ENTIRELY IN GOD'S MIND.

  He decides."

  ...did He?...If the wages of sin is death...then we decided didn't we?

  love michelle
• 

  keyser soze

  I'm sure he must to have had a boner or two in his adult life, hanging around all those brothels

  I have to disagree with this point. Even thinking about such things, which is what would cause the erection in the first place, would be a sin. If Jesus were perfect and without sin, he wouldn't have allowed his mind to be filled with such unclean thoughts. Of course, there's always morning wood. Is that a sin, if it's caused by your subconscious?
• 

  Terry

  It is a fine line, indeed, one walks when one is the source of goodness itself!

  God cannot violate God's own nature.

  Contrary to what many slow thinkers assert, God does not de facto do "good" without regard to that which He does do.

  There is the standard. A God without a fixed standard is not God at all but a powerful whim machine.

  Chaos! The definition of chaos is something like deuces wild with all the power to back it up.

  No, God must be ideal, fixed, unchanging and standardized.

  It is something to ponder when we consider that God created man's very nature and then proceeded to test it to the breaking point while being surprised, angry and vengeful at the result!!

  Who, for example, would invent a machine that could damage itself? A light switch that could suddenly blink off at random?

  Unthinkable. Yet, God seemingly did this by endowing humans with the entirely unnecessary condition of being able to do itself harm by the agency of wrong decision!

  This isn't really FREE will at all. It is free whim.

  How would this be a boon to humanity? It could not (and demonstrably isn't) a benefit at all!

  Those who defend free will don't really think about the implication of the design from God being at fault.

  But, we could view it another way. Could God create the best of all possible worlds? If so, in this best world--would Adam have passed the obedience test?