was Rutherford a drunk person ?

by jose45xyz 36 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • jose45xyz

    Is there anything to prove that Rutherford had the custom to be drunk ?

    Thank you in advance

  • Octarine Prince
    Octarine Prince

    Not quite sure.

    click here!

  • flipper

    Only when he wasn't sober ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper

  • OnTheWayOut

    There probably are some things that would be considered "proof" but the
    average witness would dismiss them as fabricated or misleading. I don't
    think I have seen any arrest reports or court documents.

    It's enough for me that it was common knowledge. I suppose they could
    dig up the body and do modern forensics to see what his liver was like, but
    otherwise it's history. I doubt that would happen. I doubt there are any
    films of him staggering around Bethel at the Christmas party.

  • Leolaia

    Well, there ARE court documents -- testimony and exhibits that bear on this matter in the Moyle v. Fred W. Franz, et al. case, docket # 15845, along with other material elsewhere, on the prominance of alcohol at Bethel and Rutherford's drinking habits. These include:

    • WTB&TS lawyer Olin Moyle's original letter to Rutherford (dated 7/21/1939), Exhibit 4 in the Moyle transcript, that claims that "under your [Rutherford's] tutelage there has grown up a glorification of alcohol and condemnation of total abstinence" at Bethel, mentioning several experiences he had at Bethel along these lines, that " 'One can't be a real Bethelite without drinking beer' ", and which said specifically to Rutherford: "You have publically labelled total abstainers as prudes and therefore must assume your share of responsibility for the Bacchus-like attitude exhibited by members of the family" (pp. 1736-1737).
    • The testimony of Olin Moyle, who related some of the things said by the boys in the elevator, "the boys would remark there, make allusions, wish they had a barrel of beer around, how nice it would be to have a barrel of beer" (p. 359), who described new Bethelites being broken into the habit of drinking beer (p. 359), who mentioned the frequent use of beer and "stronger stuff" by the factory staff in the evening (p. 360), and who related an incident in which an intoxicated factory worker rang an alarm bell late at night as a joke (pp. 361-362).
    • The testimony of Phoebe Moyle, who described seeing many empty liquor and whiskey bottles in the rooms at Bethel when she worked as a housekeeper (p. 1587), and who claimed to have been teased by brothers in the elevator saying that she couldn't take her liquor (p. 186).
    • Peter Moyle's letter, published in the December 1972 United Israel Bulletin, that "it has also been known, albeit carefully 'covered', that Rutherford liked his women and his whiskey" (cf. Horowitz 1986:65).
    • The letter by Canadian branch overseer Walter Salter to Rutherford (dated 4/1/1937, and mentioned in the 5/5/1937 issue of the Golden Age) that declared that "I, at your orders, would purchase cases of whiskey at $60.00 a case, and cases of brandy and other liquors, to say nothing of untold cases of beer. A bottle or two of liquor would not do; it was for THE PRESIDENT and nothing was too good for THE PRESIDENT. He was heaven's favorite, why should not he have everything that would gratify his desire for comfort".
    • In his response to Salter, C. J. Woodworth did not question the factualness of Salter's statements but rather justified Rutherford's liquor consumption by saying that, like Jesus, Rutherford was "under great nervous strain", noting that Rutherford's chiropractor Alta Eckols (in San Diego) found that "his back was suffering from ankylosis (six vertebrae fused together by pneunomia)", and the tremendous pain and strain medically required enough use of alcohol, "a perfect nutrient, immediately assimilable," to compensate. Woodworth quoted Eckols as saying to Rutherford: "You are a miracle of God's grace," hinting at the seriousness of the condition (5/5/1937 Golden Age, p. 500).
    • Jim Penton reported a number of accounts by those who knew Rutherford, including an elderly woman in San Diego who "sold him great quantities of liquor when he came to purchase medicines in her husband's drugstore", and former Bethelites who "recount tales of his inebriation and druken stupors" (Penton 1997:72-73). He also mentions an interview he conducted in April 1972 with Frank Wainright, late Secretary-Treasurer of the IBSA of Canada, wherein Wainright reported the illegal importation of liquor from the Canadian branch office to Bethel during Prohibition.
    • Edmond C. Gruss similarly interviewed a former Bethelite (Informant #1 in Gruss 2003) who reported that "old timers say his [Rutherford's] drinking was covered up, to the degree possible, by associates Frederick W. Franz and Nathan H. Knorr," and who specifically mentioned A. H. Macmillan as telling his father that Beth Sarim was built "for no purpose other than to get the drunken and declining Rutherford out of Brooklyn".
    • Also mildly suggestive is Rutherford's obsessive interest in Prohibition, which received much attention in his talks and writings, including a booklet on the subject published in 1930 entitled Prohibition and League of Nations -- Born of God or the Devil, Which?
  • hillary_step


    was Rutherford a drunk person ?

    There is much evidence that suggests that Rutherford was a drunk. Evidence that he was a person is not as plentiful.


  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    (details coming)

    Thanks Leo. I'm having mouse problems so can't copy and paste

  • AudeSapere
    HS wrote: Evidence that he was a person is not as plentiful.

    LOL. Funny!!


  • potleg

    Being drunk or high on canabis may explain the utter rubbish that he penned. I can just see him and his buddy Freddy Franze knocking back the booze and rolling their dope as they prepare to scribble the next isue of the Watchrag. Now it all makes sense.

  • VM44

    I find it interesting that the people who knew Judge Rutherford personally chose not to say anything about him, even after he died.

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