What Does Creation Reveal About God? (page 2)

oompa

I am awed and amazed at what I feel are creations by a higher power. I am less awed and amazed at what this creator has done since designing and creating these things.........what is he a one hit wonder????????????????..............................oompa

dvw

The one who made kittens hid snakes in the grass.

Spook

In brief, this is an argument for simpletons as used by the JW's. The modern ID crowd has retreated to "you can only infer design" not any inferance about the designer. This lets them separate theodicy from teleology.

The proposition if stated precisely would involve the following argument:

1. If God exists, he created the natural world.

2. If God exists, he is omnipotent and omniscient.

3. An omniscient, omnipotent being cannot act out of line with his character by definition and an understanding of #2.

4. Therefore, if God exists, he created the natural world in line with his character. (By 2 and 3).

5. One can make inferences about the character of God through inferances from the natural world.

The arguments against this can best be used to describe natural evel or non-moral evil which contradict the notion

1a. If God exists, he is all good.

And leads you to...

2a. But nature is not all good in that it contains amoral suffering.

3a. If nature is not all-good and it perfectly reflects God's character then God is not all good.

4a. Given 1a, God does not exist.

My favorite rhetorical counter to this is to find one very specific form of natural suffering (like storms or earthquakes) and learn the natural explanations very well. Then provide this as an example against the case for God. The defense for a theist must be that natural evil either (1) Maximizes God's higher purpose (such as testing) (2) Is the handiwork of the devil and therefore (3) Maximizes free will among humans who choose to serve dispite the evidence of natural evil.

But theists can yack on defending "the fall" or "free will" for hours before getting to this point. The good news is that I've at least usually found that a theist who is argued through this process will change their view of God into a less palatable, less fuzzy-wuzzy notion.

My favorite example of natural suffering is the lancet fluke (I got this from Daniel Dennet). The lancet fluke is a brain paracite which infects ants and compells them to get eaten so that the lancet fluke can reproduce in the belly of a sheep.

inkling

I would love to hear from some of the resident fundamentalists on this one...

Why did got create a achingly beautiful, but ultimately cruel and twisted universe?

[ink]

WTWizard

How are we supposed to enjoy or study the creation that is supposedly of God if we are supposed to be racing at 160 MPH through the cities in a mad dash to place littera-trash to everyone? Or, if we are out in field circus, we get in trouble for examining the things God supposedly created. This means we are supposed to get all our knowledge directly from the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger instead of directly (isn't that what the First Dark Ages was about too?).

Or, how are we to study nature while cooped up inside a Kingdumb Hell that either has no windows or has the blinds drawn on them while the boasting sessions are in progress?

R.Crusoe

You become aware of your own reality as soon as you see how other humans are treated like gods whilst you are treated as disposeable!

And since many feel the latter they spend their lives believing in a next life which is more equal than this one!

Effectively they have been conned into investing all their soul into not living the life gifted them, in the hope that the next one will explain the dross of this one!

What does this reveal about god?

That any god is indifferent about how the reality humans live as humans and lets them do as they will according to how well they work it all out for themselves, and it is primarily a selfish pursuit, though many humans are already working out how to get others working out for their benefit so be careful where you end up!

funkyderek

"An inordinate fondness for beetles" - J. B. S. Haldane

Sirona

I'm not a believer in the bible god, but a believer in divinity and an evolving universe...

It is my opinion that the nature of divinity includes death and destruction as natural processes. Many gods are personifications of this aspect of nature (Kali, Morrigan, etc.)

My 2p

Sirona

TheOldHippie

"Ok, evolution shows that all life today, as complex as it is, came about naturally via variety and natural selection over a long period of time."

....................

A bit too oversimplified, I would dare to say .................

hamilcarr

It is my opinion that the nature of divinity includes death and destruction as natural processes

So, what's the difference between divinity and humanity apart from the different names... ?

What Does Creation Reveal About God?

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