by MissingLink 17 Replies latest jw friends
Hey guys. There is an email making the JW (and other Christians) rounds right now that is basically a copy of this article. That claims that artifacts found in the red sea prove that Egypt's army was wiped out when Moses and friends crossed.
Is this true, or a hoax?
Truth or Fiction just says it's unproven, but doesn't say its a hoax.
Anyone?
Unfortunately, I believe it's all a scam. The man who supposedly found this wheel, is Ron Wyatt and he's either one of the biggest frauds in the world, or he's got horse-shoes up his ass.
To date, this guy has "found" this wheel that he claims is from Pharoah's army when they were drowned at the Red Sea, he's found blood stains that supposedly belong to Jesus, Noah's Ark and the Ark of the Covenant. Of course, he has absolutely no concrete evidence of any of the above said claims, but that has never stopped a con artist before. Like other greedy nut-cases, they don't know when to quit. Remember that guy who doctored all those old "documents" supposedly from the Mormon Church? He didn't know when to quit, so he just continued to make more outlandish claims of his new "findings" until he finally got caught and now sits in prison.
People have invested money into Ron Wyatt's bogus expeditions and they've never seen any concrete evidence of anything. Not only that, but assuming for the moment that the Hebrews did leave Egypt as described in the book of Exodus. They did not pass through the Red Sea as depicted in the movie The Ten Commandments, but rather the "Yam Suph" which actually means 'Sea of Reeds'.
I would love to see some physical evidence of the Exodus, I really would. However, I think Ron Wyatt's claims are about as reliable as the claim that there were WMD in Iraq.
Yeah, I looked into this a year or two ago.
Ron Wyatt, one of the discoverers, seems to me to have been somewhat of a crackpot or in the very least a 'romantic' adventurer with a loose concept of science, but very clear goals on what he wanted to find. And so he 'found' it.
Thing is, in many Christian (and Muslim) circles, you don't need evidence, it's more than enough with a few blurry photos and a claim, as long as it confirms the Bible (or Koran). After all, the Bible is already declared to be True (long before any argument even starts), so any historical data - manipulated or not - to show this, is just icing on the cake.
Is it impossible that one would find those wheels? I'd never say never, and many biblical stories have been confirmed (or at least the persons and places in them) by archaeological finds before. But there seems to be a lack of evidence here. Believe it or not; the historians, archaeologists and large museums of the world would probably like to get their hands on this as well. If there was a conspiracy to deny biblical findings, there wouldn't have been any confirmation of the earlier, documented archaeological finds either.
It should be added that Wyatt seems to mostly be acknowledged by fundamentalists, and sometimes not even by them.
I once heard that every so many years the low tides plus ocean currents conspired to evoke such a low sea level that it was possible to cross and that this was a recurring event. Not sure if there is ahrd evidence though!
If so any crossing anytime through history could have left tracks someplace!
Furthermore it would indicate no god had suddenly arrived in the spare of the moment!
Thanks for the info guys. I also found another interresting discussion.
What if someone did find chariot parts in the Red Sea? So what? There is all kinds of stuff scattered all over the Red Sea, the Mediterranean, and the Gulf of Aqaba. Humans have had trade routes and used them for military campaigns throughout the region for so many millenia that it would be more shocking to not find anything.
One of the obvious deficiencies in Ron Wyatt's "career" is that no single archaeologist could possibly have made so many discoveries if they were following the careful protocols that real archaeologists follow. Archaeology is a painstaking, tedious, undertaking under the best of circumstances and often there are dead ends to what look like promising leads.
A 07 is correct that most people who swallow this stuff start with the premise that the Bible is inspired and 100% accurate, so that any archaeological evidence is instantly interpreted as support for some Biblical account of something.
It is also true that sea level fluctuates over long periods of time and it is indisputable that at some point in the past sea level would have been sufficiently lower that the shorelines of all the region's bodies of water would have retreated seaward. Interestingly, 10 or 15 years ago, some archaeologists in Florida found the remains of a campsite with a fire pit and a charcoal pile in a cave now submerged in a 100 feet of water (all of Florida is very close to sea level). I don't know the chronology for sea level fluctuation in the Middle East / Mediterranean area during the period of time when the Jews were in Egypt, but it would be easy enough to find out. Geologists have documented global and regional sea level fluctuations over long periods of time and there are voluminous articles in academic journals about the subject.
Unfortunately, all of the foregoing will fall on deaf ears for the multitudes of fundies who refuse to logically consider the evidence objectively.
Cheers to all (including you believers--and I really mean that),
Alex
I, too, read about the Red Sea's original name of Reed Sea. Somewhere, it lost an 'e'. That tells me that it might not be that deep and that weather/climate conditions could possibly make it shallow enough to cross, at times. If there are wheels found in it, I would suspect that they were the wheels of merchants traveling to sell their wears and simply got bogged down and stuck in the mud when the sea was shallow in that part of it. Didn't that happen when the pioneers tried crossing creeks and lost their wagons due to the rushing water? A lot of people died crossing those creeks and rivers.
I, too, read about the Red Sea's original name of Reed Sea. Somewhere, it lost an 'e'. That tells me that it might not be that deep and that weather/climate conditions could possibly make it shallow enough to cross, at times.
Actually the current thinking is that the "Red Sea", the part where it's commonly thought the Israelites miraculously crossed is now known as the Gulf of Suez, and the "Sea of Reeds" (Yam Suph) are two different bodies of water. According to the Interpreters Dictionary of the Bible, The Sea of Reeds "was perhaps located at the S extension of the present Lake Mensaleh." The biblical account implies that the Yam Suph was the border between Egypt and the desert, which is not true of the Red Sea. The changing from "Reed Sea" to "Red Sea" could have been a scribal error, a translation error, or an attempt to substitute the original body of water in the story with one that the Israelites were familiar with. In any case, "Yam Suph" simply cannot be translated to "Red Sea", as several others have already pointed out. Therefore any artifacts found there cannot have anything to do with the Exodus story.
What kind of chariot? Egyptian, Assyrian, Israelite? War, or everyday use?
What time period is it from? 18th dynasty, 5th dynasty, modern replica?
Where was it found? Was it anywhere near where the Israelites supposedly crossed?
How much was found? Enough to indicate the destruction of an ENTIRE army? Or just enough for maybe a traveling merchant?
What kind of stuff was found with it? Weapons and armor? Or tools and trinkets?
Are the pictures even real? They could be doctored or taken from a completely different area... 'Lying for Jesus' is not new.
