Evidence of Jesus Outside the New Testament (long article)

by lovelylil 42 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Borgia

  I made a separate thread to give you the opportunity to make your case xjw4vr and I'm sure we'll get some interesting responses.
  
  XJW4EVR 's list of believes in invisbile......
  
  Cheers
  
  Borgia
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  funkyderek

  lovelylil:

  Did you ever think that maybe even without the Bible or belief in Jesus being a historical person that just maybe some here would STILL believe in a God (higher power)?

  Of course. That's a large part of the point I've been repeatedly trying to make. I'm not sure quite how you keep missing it. People already hold belief in gods for whatever reason (the Argument from Design like you, early indoctrination or just wishful thinking). Those people, if they further identify that god with the Jesus of the bible, will often try, as you have done, to prove that it is something other than a legend.

  For some of us, the evidence is all around us that he exists. We live in a universe that HAD a beginning, and that is according to science. The big bang while it explains what happened after the universe already began, does not explain what set things in motion. For me, "what" is God. Science also sees an intelligence behind the clock work type precision that the universe runs at. This intelligence to many is "God". Also while science can clone living things, they cannot create life from nothing. Again, for believers "who" or "what" did create from nothing is "God" or a higher power.

  Let's accept for a moment that this argument is convincing. We've found a couple of areas where science does not yet have all the answers, so we must posit a supreme intelligence to explain those gaps. (Of course it's not at all convincing, but as it's not the subject of this thread, let's go with it for the moment.) Nothing at all about the necessity for such an entity would cause anyone to identify it with the biblical character of Jesus.

  I believed in these truths well before ever learning about the existance of a Jesus Christ or knowing what the Bible was. You know, the Christian faith does not hinge on the Bible or its interpretation alone. We believe that is only the "written revelation" of God to man. But God reveals himself in man, in creation and by his spirit which indwells all true believers.

  That's a complete non sequitur. Why would this god who created an unimaginably vast universe and left it to run apparently unaided for thirteen billion years have anything at all to do with a tiny insignificant planet in an obscure corner of an uninteresting galaxy, much less pretend briefly to be a travelling conjurer in a time when primitive superstition abounded?

  Whatever other reasons you have for identifying Jesus with the creator of the universe, the mere existence of the universe is obviously grossly inadequate.

  Just pointing these things out because unless you experience God, you cannot EVER understand why it is that we stick to our opinion that he does exist.

  Of course I could, if the evidence you provided was really sufficient. It is only because it is so insufficient that you need to fall back on a more esoteric method of obtaining knowledge: your "experience" which conveniently cannot be measured or scrutinised.

  And I want you to know that whether or not you and others like you totally debunk the bible, since our faith does not rest soley on that, there will still be believers in the world.

  Again, this is a point I have repeatedly been making. You believe without evidence. You only try to provide evidence because there is still a part of you that understands that rational people will not believe such fanciful tales for no reason, and if you have the appearance of proof, you will look less ridiculous.

  Evidence of this is the early church who believed in God and Christ with NOT ONE written thing about him.

  And they thought a lot like you. They realised that without evidence most people wouldn't believe them so they simply created the evidence. They wrote stories about their god that "fulfilled" all the prophecies made about the Jewish Messiah, and when they had the opportunity, they inserted references to him in otherwise reliable historical accounts. They disparaged or destroyed any accounts that would cast doubt on their teachings.

  So you see my friend by your fight against Christianity and the Bible, you are merely swimming up stream

  Well, even a dead fish can go with the flow.
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  startingover

  BTTT Where are you lil?