Evidence of Jesus Outside the New Testament (long article)

by lovelylil 42 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  lovelylil

  derek,

  Did you ever think that maybe even without the Bible or belief in Jesus being a historical person that just maybe some here would STILL believe in a God (higher power)?

  For some of us, the evidence is all around us that he exists. We live in a universe that HAD a beginning, and that is according to science. The big bang while it explains what happened after the universe already began, does not explain what set things in motion. For me, "what" is God. Science also sees an intelligence behind the clock work type precision that the universe runs at. This intelligence to many is "God". Also while science can clone living things, they cannot create life from nothing. Again, for believers "who" or "what" did create from nothing is "God" or a higher power.

  I believed in these truths well before ever learning about the existance of a Jesus Christ or knowing what the Bible was. You know, the Christian faith does not hinge on the Bible or its interpretation alone. We believe that is only the "written revelation" of God to man. But God reveals himself in man, in creation and by his spirit which indwells all true believers.

  Just pointing these things out because unless you experience God, you cannot EVER understand why it is that we stick to our opinion that he does exist. And I want you to know that whether or not you and others like you totally debunk the bible, since our faith does not rest soley on that, there will still be believers in the world. Evidence of this is the early church who believed in God and Christ with NOT ONE written thing about him. So you see my friend by your fight against Christianity and the Bible, you are merely swimming up stream. Peace to you, Lilly
• 

  Tuesday

  I know this is to Derek but I'm sure he wouldn't mind me pointing out a few things...

  Science also sees an intelligence behind the clock work type precision that the universe runs at. This intelligence to many is "God".

  Actually only Intelligent Design scientists see that. That is not the theory of the overwhelming majority of scientists. Please do not respond with anything by Behe or The Discovery Institute.

  Also while science can clone living things, they cannot create life from nothing

  You might want to look into some of the experiments of Stanley Miller who has produced some organic compounds from non-organic compounds. It's just a matter of time before Scientists can create from scratch.

  Just pointing these things out because unless you experience God, you cannot EVER understand why it is that we stick to our opinion that he does exist.

  Aren't there just as many people confessing their personal expirience with Allah? Zeus? Vishnu? Odin? If this is what you want to express that you have a personal relationship with God and that's how you know he exists please write a testimonial, don't use psuedoscience (Intelligent Design) or try to prove exhistence independent of the bible.

  I know lots of people who have had expiriences with God, none of which can tell me that they weren't in a highly emotional or altered state at the time. I have a friend that expirienced God after a long day in church singing his praises, I know another who expirienced God after a near death expirience, I also know a friend who talked to a purple catipillar when he was tripping on LSD. They can all tell me the earth shattering amazing expiriences that changed their life, it doesn't really prove anything to me. Now if 2 or 3 witnesses came forward verifying these friend's expiriences who weren't in any sort of suggestible or altered state they might have a case. Me personally I'll hope for the purple catipillar
• 

  Borgia

  Lovelylil,
  
  I second your thought that a lot of people would believe in God even without a bible.......because it is a feature that can be seen in any culture.....
  
  Without the bible, ancient Egyptians believed in a Sun-God. Indians still believe in Vishnu & Krishna.
  
  However, that is no reason why believe in the biblical theology should be any more justified than those of the Hindu's or Buddhist even though they may vent concepts or morality on par with those of Christianity. and in the case of JC, it is just mind boggling that the biggest event in history is so poorly documented, although the era itself is very well documented.
  
  Cheers
  
  Borgia
• 

  lovelylil

  Tuesday,

  You made some good points. I am going to start a thread about the existance of God. Lets discuss this over there, o.k. Lilly
• 

  lovelylil

  Not today but next week I will start the thread. I am working soon and all weekend. This thread was only to discuss Jesus and whether or not there is secular proof he existed, not to discuss the whole God debate. That deserves another thread, one I will start next week. Peace, Lilly
• 

  sinis

  derek,

  Did you ever think that maybe even without the Bible or belief in Jesus being a historical person that just maybe some here would STILL believe in a God (higher power)?

  For some of us, the evidence is all around us that he exists. We live in a universe that HAD a beginning, and that is according to science. The big bang while it explains what happened after the universe already began, does not explain what set things in motion. For me, "what" is God. Science also sees an intelligence behind the clock work type precision that the universe runs at. This intelligence to many is "God". Also while science can clone living things, they cannot create life from nothing. Again, for believers "who" or "what" did create from nothing is "God" or a higher power.

  I believed in these truths well before ever learning about the existance of a Jesus Christ or knowing what the Bible was. You know, the Christian faith does not hinge on the Bible or its interpretation alone. We believe that is only the "written revelation" of God to man. But God reveals himself in man, in creation and by his spirit which indwells all true believers.

  Just pointing these things out because unless you experience God, you cannot EVER understand why it is that we stick to our opinion that he does exist. And I want you to know that whether or not you and others like you totally debunk the bible, since our faith does not rest soley on that, there will still be believers in the world. Evidence of this is the early church who believed in God and Christ with NOT ONE written thing about him. So you see my friend by your fight against Christianity and the Bible, you are merely swimming up stream. Peace to you, Lilly

  The idea that their are several parallel universes is also a valid arguement. Have you ever stopped to ponder that "God" is nothing more than an alien race who "created" us? Not very far fetched. Multiple dimensions are possible and likely. Just because we cannot "see" into these other "worlds" does not mean they do not exist. Humans are very low on the pole, and the possibilty of other, far superior, races existing is more than plausible but mathmatically probable. Why do humans continue to believe in terracentric ideologies?
• 

  Leolaia

  The Grave thing, isn't there a town in Japan that claims ownership of the grave of Jesus Christ?

  Yes, I've been there myself. It was a real hoot!

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/74523/1.ashx
• 

  startingover

  After reading this thread and others like it, I am convinced there is a quirk in some people's brain that allows them to believe in invisible beings. I say quirk because that can't be normal like me
• 

  XJW4EVR

  After reading this thread and others like it, I am convinced there is a quirk in some people's brain that allows them to believe in invisible beings. I say quirk because that can't be normal like me

  There are many "invisible" things in which you believe and trust in every day. You cannot "see" them but you see the evidence that it exists every day. Shal I list them, and further demonstrate the silliness of the above premise?
• 

  Tuesday

  There are many "invisible" things in which you believe and trust in every day. You cannot "see" them but you see the evidence that it exists every day. Shal I list them, and further demonstrate the silliness of the above premise?

  I'm game, please do.