Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT stupid!

by nicolaou 72 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  chickpea

  i often point out to my kids the difference between
  ignorance and stupidity....

  ignorant

  c.1374, from O.Fr. ignorant, from L. ignorantia, from ignorantem, prp. of ignorare from in- "not" + Old L. gnarus "aware, acquainted with," from Porot-L. suffixed form *gno-ro- , related to gnoscere "to know" (see know). Form influenced by ignotus "unknown." Cf. also see uncouth. Colloquial sense of "ill-mannered" first attested 1886. Ignorance is attested c.1225, from O.Fr. ignorance, from L. ignorantia.

  stupid

  1541, "mentally slow," from M.Fr. stupide , from L. stupidus "amazed, confounded," lit. "struck senseless," from stupere "be stunned, amazed, confounded," from PIE *(s)tupe- "hit," from base *(s)teu- (see steep (adj.)). Native words for this idea include negative compounds with words for "wise" (cf. O.E. unwis, unsnotor, ungleaw ), also dol (from root of Ger. toll "mad," related to Gk. tholeros "muddy, turbid"), and dysig (see dizzy). Stupid retained its association with stupor and its overtones of "stunned by surprise, grief, etc." into mid-18c. The difference between stupid and the less opprobrious foolish roughly parallels that of Ger. töricht vs. dumm but does not exist in most European languages.

  tweaking those definitions juuuuuuust a little
  i tell my kids everyone is ignorant ....
  the knowledge of the universe cannot be contained
  in a single human vessel..... there are always going to
  be "unknowns"

  HOWEVER, stupid comes into play when individuals
  have access to knowledge or information that has potential
  to influence a decision or opinion and it is rejected precisely
  for that reason...... i see it all the time here in this rural burg

  individuals graduate from high school and stop learning....
  they think education only happens in the confines of an institution!!
  
  locked into their terminal jobs and pedestrian lives, insulated by an
  impenetrable bubble of ossified opinion where challenging bits of new
  information are summarliy dismissed as " a bunch of bullsh!t" because of choices
  to REMAIN ignorant, these types i consider to be stupid....
• 

  Mickey mouse

  Hear hear Mary!

  Chickpea said:

  HOWEVER, stupid comes into play when individuals have access to knowledge or information that has potential to influence a decision or opinion and it is rejected precisely for that reason...... i see it all the time here in this rural burg

  Gee...now who does that remind me of??
• 

  Mickey mouse

  that is the uniquesness of disfellowship in JW's makes it one of the few christian faiths that do punish "wrongdoing" in a real but non-violent way.

  You can't have looked into this very carefully reniaa. There are lots of other groups that practice disfellowshipping/shunning. That's one of the factors that identifies them as CULTS!!
• 

  Mary

  Well Mary despite having a real dislike of ad hominen arguements like you do here resorting to attacking me personally! (normally I ignore these are they add nothing to the debate) I will answer you. I reserve my right to take issue with a thread designed to suggest Witnesses are stupid (even though it says they are not it's inviting peoples opposing viewpoints and the even the poster just puts in so many words they are just people who believe something stupid) so you end up with a long debate on whether witnesses are stupid or not.

  Let me get this straight: You claim that this particular thread is designed "to suggest Witnesses are stupid even though it says they are not". Circular reasoning at it's best. Despite the fact that the title of the topic is: Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT stupid! and the fact that virtually everyone on here has stated that they do not view Witnesses as being "stupid", you snidley claim that the only reason we're saying that is because we were all Witnesses ourselves at one time----a claim without any rationalization other than your own deluded notions.

  If anyone is guilty of ad hominen arguments Reniaa---it's you. Who was it that suggested we all had an ulterior motive for what we said? YOU did. Apparently it wasn't to your liking that we do not assert that Witnesses are stupid, so instead you attack our motives. Witness mentality at it's finest.

  I'm starting to wonder of your claims that you are considering going back to the KH Reniaa. The majority of your posts smack of an active Witness, not someone who's left and only "considering going back".
• 

  Devilsnok

  Not stupid, I was born in. My mum on the other hand...
• 

  Eyes Open

  reniaa,
  
  Your posts are so obviously skewed by your desire to believe what the Watchtower teaches, and it's really sad to see. Suggesting that we are saying Witnesses are not stupid just because we used to be Witnesses is ridiculously shallow and a really cheap shot at people that have had to come to terms with mistakes they've made. These same people are trying to help you stop making the same mistakes.
  
  Speaking of which, have you read that book I recommended you yet - the one about the bible and how it's misused today?
• 

  jgnat

  ... the uniquesness of disfellowship in JW's makes it one of the few christian faiths that do punish "wrongdoing" in a real but non-violent way....

  I realize your comments may come out of ignorance of what is out there, but really. The Witnesses are not "unique" in their disfellowshipping. They just do it more often, for more offences, and with more severe restrictions. One can be disfellowshipped simply for thinking that the Watchtower society is not divinely guided as the "Faithful and Discreet Slave." One can be disfellowshipped for smoking. Is a smoker an unrepentant danger to the congregation?

  I would also not call characterize complete shut-off from family and friends as non-violent.

  So jgnat my research finds that only staff are under discipline but you say this isn't a case?

  Where did you do your research? I googled "Church Discipline". Read and compare.

  http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=532

  http://www.gotquestions.org/church-discipline.html

  http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05678a.htm

  Unlike the Jehovah's Witnesses, excommunication and church discipline is reserved for very grave offences.

  How would your church deal with an average member found out doing a crime, and is there a formal written down proceedure or is it at every groups decretion.

  I notice that my Alliance church does not publish their church discipline procedure online. That is not surprising. I note that the Watchtower Society does not publish their "Organized to do Jehovah's Will" manual either.

  In any account, I find your way of working through issues to be peculiar. It seems like you are looking for reasons to justify the Watchtower's behavior at any cost. Including logic and reason.
• 

  still_in74

  would we call a child abuse victim "stupid" as an adult if their abuse certainly contributed to their inability to focus and pay attention in school? Or would we feel sympathy for them?

  we feel sorry for these victims when they are children but then we hold them accountable as adults. Is this right??? Is an adult accountable solely because their an adult now and they should "know better" even when their ability to socialize and understand society was undermined by an abusive parent?
  As a society we have to deal with these victims, sometimes harshly, to protect others but it does not mean that these ones are not worthy or deserving of our sympathies.

  JW's are not stupid. They are victims, either as children (like myself) or as adults at a time in their life when they were susceptable to coercion.

  I am not stupid. But my ability to socialize with people other than JW's in a JW setting has been severly handicapped. I know this, and I also know its not my fault. I have many friends that are JW's and I ache for every one of them when I choke down all the things I want to tell them about the mind-control tactics of the Org.

  Having said that, I do understand the feelings of frustration one gets when dealing with the "super JW's" that commonly and usually openly express their disgust for all other religions and all people other than JW's. And certainly these too are very quick to point out that apostates are "liars" and "hateful" people without having ever listened to one to make that assesment. Yet again, another example of how victimized these ones are....
• 

  BluesBrother

  Firstly - reniaa and anyone who may disagrees with the majority are WELCOME to contribute to this forum as long as it lasts, that is why it is called a forum. The rest of us do not want to listen to ourselves all the time.

  Stupid??

  Well I know that I was when it came to the Witness religion...I must accept that. What else do you call a man who buried his doubts and concerns time and again, and devoted 50 years of life to a worthless concept that gives nothing back except disappointment and made other life choices in harmony with it

  Does that make me a stupid person ?- that is for others to judge...

  The word is not supposed to be applied these days to those suffering brain defects..I think that the point is in the dictionary definition that was posted up

  The difference between stupid and the less opprobrious foolish roughly parallels that of Ger. töricht vs. dumm but does not exist in most European languages.

  Perhaps we should be talking about foolish dubs ? That would be more like it. What about the rocket scientist whose life was in the mags a while back. He is demonstrably a clever man, but we would consider his J W Ministry a foolish thing to do...
• 

  jgnat

  I am reminded also of women recovering from an abusive relationship. A very common complaint is they ask themselves, "How could I have been so stupid?" Well, it's easier than most of us would admit, but our independence is fairly easily overrun. A master manipulator can do it in short order.

  So how do we keep ourselves from being sucked in again? Examine ourselves. Find out what the triggers are. Recognize it in other people, organizations, and events. Value ourselves more. Vow to associate with healthy and respectful people and organizations. Dignity be damned, if we find ourselves in a manipulative situation again, walk away.