by yknot 14 Replies latest jw friends
Okay I am re reading without WT blinders.....
I was noticing that Paul appears to contradict Christ on several occasions. Now that I recognize that I am still Bible ignorant outside of JW understanding I was hoping some of our more knowledgeable posters would address this issue for us Bible Babies.
Thank You
Yknot
One of the more interesting ideas regarding the Bible is that the Gospels were written after, as a response to, Paul's epistles.
Early Christianity was far more diverse than most people realize. Some groups of Christians disliked Paul's sometimes Pharisaical outlook on things, and so "one-upped" him by writing the Gospels, and having Jesus himself saying things that more aligned with their own viewpoint.
I think you will find that in some ways Paul disagrees with Christ. For instance, Jesus had a much different view of woman than Paul did. Jesus had a lot of woman followers and treated them equal as men. He even spoke to the woman at the well who was also a Samaritan. This would have been a double no,no back then.
Remember Paul was a Pharisee at one time and he stuck with the views that most Jewish men had about woman at the time. Let no woman speak or teach and let her keep her head covered, etc.
I think it goes to who they were, Christ the son of God, but Paul a one time pharisee. Their personalities were totally different that is for sure. Paul was a great Christian example though in that he had a zeal for God and Christ and was in agreement with Christ in all the essential issues pertinent to the Christian faith. Peace, Lilly
I think Leolaia or Narkosis can explain this the best. A lot of where Paul differs with the theology of Christ in the Gospels is from later works such as Timothy and Titus which could have been influenced by those trying to stamp out gnostic influences. Leolaia had a great article written on Women in the NT and Paul's view.
here is some info. I've come accross, long winded reading but interesting nonetheless
http://jesuspuzzle.humanists.net/home.htm
peace,
haze
You opened a can of worms on that one. There are a lot of people that argue there is no historical evidence there ever was a Jesus.
There is probably more evidence there was a Paul or someone who wrote under that name.
Here is a recent post by Terry to give you one of many possible insights to your question.
The apparent disagreements of "Jesus" with "Paul" indeed vary depending on which "Jesus" and which "Paul" are considered. If you compare the "Paul" of Romans and Galatians with the "Jesus" of Matthew, you will find strong disagreement on the issue of Law observance -- the "liberal" (more exactly antinomian, i.e. anti-Law) one being Paul, and the Matthean "Jesus" explicitly opposing him, although definitely not from a Pharisaic perspective.
If you compare the "Paul" of the Pastorals with the "Jesus" of Mark, John, or even Luke, you have a completely different set of portraits again: here a very different "Paul" may sound more "legalistic" than "Jesus," but rather about church doctrine and regulations than about the Jewish law, which is already out of perspective.
Actually I think the Pharisaic pedigree traditionally ascribed to Paul (in Pauline literature, only in one passage of Philippians, 3:5) obscures the problem more than it explains it. If we want to understand the real differences between Pauline literature and the Gospels, one of the first steps imo is to forget about the late story of Acts which gives a very artificial picture of Paul, in which it is practically impossible to recognise the author(s) of the epistles...
I have to agree with the idea that Sir82 mentions, namely that Paul's letters to to the various congregations are the earliest "books" of the New Testament. For example, Paul's first letter to the Thessalonians is commonly dated to the year 49, about twenty years prior to the earliest gospel which is the gospel of Mark. Most biblical scholars believe that the second letter of Peter to be the last New Testament book written; in regard to actual author of 2 Peter, most scholars think that it was written pseudonymously - not by Peter. Most of the New Testament consists of letters; there are twenty one accepted as canonical. Thirteen are written by Paul or in Paul's name. Without a doubt, many of these letters were written before any of the gospels and that the gospels are in some respects a response to the letters.
Paul is an apostate. Jesus only had 12 Apostles. Acts 1:26 Rev.21:14 show this. Paul says in about all his writings that he is an apostle but read what Jesus says about those who say they are. Rev.2:2.
In Galatians 3:27-28, Paul writes: "For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, neither slave nor free; there is not male and female; for all of ou are one in Jesus Christ." In his teachings, Jesus proclaims the equality between men and women that will accompany the imminent establishment of the Kingdom. In Galatians, Paul seems to be in agreement with Jesus in the matter.
But compare Galatians with the infamous passage in 1Timothy 2:11-15 where "Paul" insists that "a woman learn in silence with full submission." In fact, Paul does not even permit a woman to speak.
How to reconcile these two passages? The simple answer is- "It can't be done." However, it should be noted that most scholars think that 1Timothy was not written by Paul; rather, it was written by his second-generation followers. These later followers were involved in an often-bitter polemic concerning the role of women in the Church. In fact, there were many raging debates on many issues in the second-century church. These debates involved, among other things, the proper and suitable relationship of the new Christian church toward Jews and pagans, and the role of women in the congregations. The second century saw the beginning of the age of polemics among church leaders. There were many competing groups with divergent ideologies.
