by Open mind 56 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Oh, and here is a short clip of Dawkins talking about the book:
Damage control to protect the Movement. What does Dawkins care about what another chooses to believe?
This is like one of those letters the Watchtower circulates to BOEs after a scandal.
Burn
Oh boy oh boy, I found the whole thing online!
http://www.all-jesus.com/scriptures/helloriginal.htm
Ohhhhhpppp here is a mystery solved! Hell IS a woman!
Jesus spoke again, "Hell has a body (like a human form) lying on her back in the center of the earth. Hell is shaped like a human body- very large and with many chambers of torment.
Shirley
Damage control to protect the Movement. What does Dawkins care about what another chooses to believe?
This is like one of those letters the Watchtower circulates to BOEs after a scandal.
Burn
Hi BTS. Did you watch the video? If you did, you would know he was responding to a question asked him about the situation with AF.
Thanks for that link inkling.
I really enjoyed this quote from Richard Dawkins which I'll try to faithfully transcribe here:
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"There may be good reasons for believing in a god. And if there are any, I would expect them to come from, possibly, modern physics, from cosmology, from the observation that, uh, some people claim, that the laws and constants of the Universe are too finely tuned to be an accident. That would not be a wholly disreputable reason for believing in some form of supernatural deity.
I think there's a very good argument against it, and I developed much of my Chapter 4 to, as I think, refuting that argument."
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I love Dawkin's straightforwardness in honestly admitting, in his opinion of course, where the opposing side's argument's are strongest. I find that pretty refreshing.
OM
Hey Burn,
I think you're attributing more anti-god bias to Dawkins than there really is call for.
He's not jumping up and down saying "THERE CANNOT BE A GOD"!
He's saying, "Where's the Beef?"
"I don't see it."
"If you can prove it to me, no problem."
As opposed to Theists/Deists, who've got a huge cosmic teddy bear to lose, myself included.
My insecure, irrational, emotional self would LOVE for there to be a benevolent God up there ready to bestow eternal life upon me for being a decent person and maybe saying a few "Hail Buddhas" or whatever hoops he wants me to jump through now and then.
My rational brain doesn't see it though.
Wish I could. I honestly do. I openly admit a bias in favor of Theism, and I STILL can't see it. Which is why I picked up the book.
OM
It's hard to let go, isn't it, Burn?
Sorry, but "the world's most notorious atheist" means "the world's most notorious atheist." That means he is better known than Sam Harris, Christopher Hutchins etc. In this case he is definitely NOT the worlds most notorious atheist. Never heard of him, just like none of us here have3 ever heard of him. It is a blatant sensatiobnalist title evidently aimed at all the Jesus freaks who are always on the edge of their seats waiting for an atheist to fall. Any philosopher that doesn't KNOW that God cannot be proven or disproven through reason, logic or any other means is not a real philosopher. All the best known atheists agree on this point. But as we have seen, he is definitely not among them. Something tragic probably happpened in his life that he is not talking about. Science cannot prove or disprove God. It is physically and othwerwise impossible. End of discussion, unl;ess you want to talk about how UNLIKELY it is that god exists, or how probable it is that he does exist. Absolutes on this subject are just non-existent. Any honest scientist will tell you so.
Anthony Flew's most famous essay was the Invisible Gardner illustration. I heard Flew in one of his last debates against apologist William Lane Craig. I was at that time embarassed that he was propped up on stage in his elderly condition. He was going down hill rapidly at that time. The last time I heard him speak he was still absolutely not a theist. He did not believe in an afterlife or divine intervention at that time. Deism is as about as far as you can get from religion.
It is sad to me that of all the arguments Flew fell for it was the design inference by Behe. The specific cases in his book and their underpinnings have been soundly trounced by the biological sciences. As an avid debater of such issues, the most challenging one I encounter is the fine tuned universe argument. The reply to this is obvious but rather less than compelling. I'm sure the moonie Wells and his friends at the Discovery Institute are high fiving each other for the eternal trampeling and quote mining they will get to do to profane the reputation of a great intellectual. This will be a sad blow to secularists everywhere. I most of all resent the title and sub-titles. But I suppose that's just the publishing industry swooshing together as many blurbs from unrelated philosophical backgrounds as possible. If I had my blurb on the back of the book it would read:
"It's sad to see a respected intellectual decline in thinking abilities in his old age. Of all the arguments that could have challenged his logic, Flew has fallen for the poorest of them. It is ironic to the extreme that his memory will be profaned by those who use his Deism as support for all the irrational religious notions he struggled against in his life."
And for what it's worth, I'll claim Mother Theresa for our side (from her letters). Though I'd prefer to be without that pickpocketing, dictator greasing fraud. So I guess it's even.
Burn, I have a question about damage control for the "movement". What need would there be for it? There is no leadership, there are no tithes or contribution boxes, there is no membership roll call, "the Movement" doesn't own property.........etc.
Burn, I have a question about damage control for the "movement". What need would there be for it? There is no leadership, there are no tithes or contribution boxes, there is no membership roll call, "the Movement" doesn't own property.........etc.
Sorry, beksbks.
Satan is the leader of the Movement.
And he owns the whole world.
It's all in the Bible.
Check it out.
