Is accepting a whole blood transfusion a DF offense? (page 3)

TD

What if they state that they have accepted a blood transfusion, that are not sorry for it but they do not want to be disassociated? Then what???

I would guess that the elders would try to resolve such an obvious contradiction. Is the person ignorant about what JW's teach or do they disagree with what JW's teach? The AMD that the JW's sign makes ignorance just about impossible. If it is open disagreement, then a real judicial proceeding on charges of apostasy would be inevitable.

cognac

If it is open disagreement, then a real judicial proceeding on charges of apostasy would be inevitable.

What if you say that you don't teach anything so your not an apostate? You just believe something different in your heart.

Borgia

Within the JW community? YES! unless you MOVE TO BULGARIA!

Cheers

Borgia

cognac

Within the JW community? YES! unless you MOVE TO BULGARIA!

So you wouldn't get d'f in Bulgaria based on the blood issue or apostasy?

TD

What if you say that you don't teach anything so your not an apostate? You just believe something different in your heart.

There is no distinction between "Believing" and "Teaching" when it comes to apostasy. Even if there were, it wouldn't matter since the person in the situation you describe had actually acted on their belief.

cognac

There is no distinction between "Believing" and "Teaching" when it comes to apostasy. Even if there were, it wouldn't matter since the person in the situation you describe had actually acted on their belief.

Wow, thought I was onto a loophole for a second there but they really covered there bases...

AND THERE WILL NEVER BE ANY WAY OUT!!! YOU ARE STUCK HERE FOREVER!!!

cognac

There is no distinction between "Believing" and "Teaching" when it comes to apostasy. Even if there were, it wouldn't matter since the person in the situation you describe had actually acted on their belief.

Wow, thought I was onto a loophole for a second there but they really covered there bases...

AND THERE WILL NEVER BE ANY WAY OUT!!! YOU ARE STUCK HERE FOREVER!!!

Vinny

Cognac asks:..."What if you say that you don't teach anything so your not an apostate? You just believe something different in your heart."

****** Read pages 34 and 35 of the Reasoning Book, under the subject Apostasy.

Under the definition of apostasy it includes this:

"Others claim to believe the bible but reject Jehovah's Organization".

**** By rejecting any CURRENT TEACHING published by "Jehovah's Organization", you are then considered to be rejecting "Jehovah's Organization" itself.

Then, under the subheading, "Some identifying marks of Apostates", on page 35 it states:

"They may claim to serve God but reject his representatives, his visible organization".

And then it quotes Jude 8 and 11 about "disregarding Lordship and speaking abusively of Glorious ones" etc.

Obviously speaking here about our good ole BOYS FROM BROOKLYN.

This is exactly what happened to me. I did not take blood. I did not tell others to take blood. I did not speak out against the organization at all. I simply DISAGREED with that one current teaching of the organization about blood.

And then after the elders came to my house and tried to as they said, "snatch me out of the fire", (though could not refute or really even address my arguments proving the JW's were wrong on blood), they said they would have no choice but to disfellowship me unless I changed my mind and now agreed with this teaching once again.

To simplify all this Cognac, by disagreeing with any JW teaching, you are (according to the JW's) THE DREADED "APOSTATE". Amazing but true.

And Here is more from the "printed page" itself. (Hubby should love this too)...

Watchtower, August 1, 2001, p. 14:

A mature Christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned. He does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and ‘the faithful and discreet slave."

You just gotta love that. I guess that one answers your initial question about "just believing something different in your heart".

To be disfellowshipped, an apostate does not have to be a promoter of apostate views....If a baptized Christian abandons the teachings of Jehovah, as presented by the faithful and discreet slave, and persists in (((believing))) other doctrine despite Scriptural reproof, then he is apostasizing. Extended, kindly efforts should be put forth to readjust his thinking. However, if, after such extended efforts have been put forth to readjust his thinking, he continues (((to believe))) the apostate ideas and rejects what he has been provided through the 'slave class', then appropriate judicial action should be taken."

You can see a copy of the actual letter in Ray Franz 'Crisis of Conscience', page 341.

As you can clearly see from the above, not only can one not publicly disagree with any current JW teachings today, but you cannot even THINK DIFFERENTLY.

This is just another reason why I told them I can no longer support this organization any longer.

And just before they were going to disfellowship me, because I could not agree with their position on blood and fractions, I handed in my letter of disassociation.

I lost biz partner, employees, my stepson, reputation, friends, family and am viewed as a wicked person and shunned by all JW's today.

And what is my great crime for all this?

Disagreeing with the organization and that is it.

THAT is viewed as the greatest sin today. Because you are both an unrepentant sinner AND an apostate, according to the JW's.

Be sure to share all this with hubby. Bet he'll just love to know you guys BOTH ALREADY APOSTATES.

Keep up the good work Cognac. (you bad apostate you...

Vinny

cognac

He does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding.

WOW!!!

That's really gross. I just thought you couldn't teach things contrary to what they said... I didn't realize you couldn't even "harbor private ideas"...

Who the hell do they think they are trying to even control your thoughts??? If that's the case, then I'd say about 1/2 of JWs are apostates and don't even know it...

Is accepting a whole blood transfusion a DF offense?

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