For Christians...Is It Just Me or Am I Losing My Mind

by XJW4EVR 58 Replies latest jw friends

  • LouBelle
    LouBelle
    Am I the only one that is turned off by this "happy clappy" worship, or is this something that you have experienced too?

    I went to a very lively church group (large one at that - at least a 1000 people) and the worship was mind blowing at first - I guess because I hadn't seen this kind of stuff before, but like you said sometimes it sounded very manufactured espeically when the leader would be calling for people to give their life to christ - they would carry on and on.

    At prayer meetings people would jump up and down and speak in gibberish (no one translates) I left the church after 3 months - I'll go to a friends' church if they ask me and it's always the same - the leader comes to me and asks me where I fellowship, my usual reply is I am the church and follow my fathers' guidance.....this last sunday I apparently said " I am the christ " (my friend and his leader looked at me rather oddly and I coundln't figure out why until my friend told me what I said.)

  • prophecor
    prophecor

    Solemn says a lot to me, in some areas. I've said words similar, on another thread, long ago. But going to the House of Jehovah, we as witnesses were so, "We're in the Perfect Place". We didn't need to examine how we were stained by the world, at the end of the week. We were so correct, even the music we were given to use for worship was tinny, and tinkly. No energy behind it, whatsoever. Nothing was driving it.

    I've been to church services, however, where the music alone was able to put me in a needed, particular, space. It was solemn, and catered to a place of humility, where my feet required walking. It helped to set the tone for my being able to be receptive to the word of healing that was there. Some of the other kinda' music, even I've been swayed by. Though I wonder if I was only caught up in the moment. Sorta' like that Mob Mentality.

  • hmike
    hmike

    This really has gotten a lot of responses—including one from a worship leader—so maybe it's a good time to bring up some other related issues. Music & worship has been a sticking point with me for a long time.

    I've attended denominational churches that used hymnals with old, traditional music and sometimes just had a piano. Now, I attend a "happy clappy" church with a worship leader and team, with song words on an overhead screen—a typical contemporary non-denominational church. When I was in the earlier churches, I thought the worship was very dry and lifeless. Now that this is all I get, I find myself wishing for some of the old songs. Since my favorite music is classical, what I really enjoy is an organ and a choir. So, what would be best for me is probably a mix of all those in the worship. Of course, that's impossible. Each church has a way of conducting worship, and if it doesn't suit you, you simply move on to someplace that has what you like. That's one of the great privileges in this country. It's just that what I think would be best doesn't exist.

    I think the contemporary worship style is intended to appeal to the people who have had unfulfilling—or even bad—experiences in traditional churches, and may be lost to the church otherwise (the church is saying, "We're not like those others that turned you off"). I also think it's intended to appeal to people who like lively, energetic, enthusiastic, joyous singing—people who are extroverted in that way and want release. That's all great if that describes you.

    Sometimes, the contemporary worship seems like a pep rally—get people worked up for Jesus. Worship leaders and pastors sometimes make it a point to encourage the people to be less inhibited in their worship. There's even a song called "Undignified" based on how David danced when he brought in the Ark and said, "I will become even more undignified than this." This approach to worship has some merit, but I have to wonder if it's also part of a strategy based on a determination that this is good for people psychologically. Maybe for some, it's meant to be a distraction or diversion—to get people out of the ordinary.

    An issue I have with contemporary worship music is that it's one stanza done over and over and over and over...unlike the old songs that had at least four stanzas. Modern songs seem to lack depth, and they certainly weren't as hard to write. Do leaders think fluff and staying on the surface is better? Let's not engage the mind too much? Maybe so.

    Another thing I feel personally is that a worship leader and team are superfluous. All I need is the words and music. If I'm looking at the words, I'm not paying attention to the performance up front.

    All these things give me the feeling of being disregarded. It doesn't edify me.

    Now, all that having been said about my issues with contemporary worship, there's something I've had to examine: am I making this all too much about me? Should any of this matter, as long as the Father and Jesus are being glorified? Am I looking for the worship to please me? Should that have any importance? Legitimate questions, I think. So, lately, I've been setting all that aside as best I can and go along with what's presented. I've tried to set aside my tastes and my preferences and my objections—to get away from me. Maybe that's what I need to do.

  • truthsearcher
    truthsearcher

    DDawg: I don't think I expressed myself adequately before. What I meant is that there is a place for singing songs that tell others what God has done in our lives: that is "To God be the glory, great things HE has done..." as opposed to "To You, be the glory, great things YOU have done". I believe there should be a mixture of both perspectives. Do you disagree?

    HMike: You make some very interesting points. But remember not all contemporary worship music is shallow and "fluffy". There are some wonderful new hymns and songs being written that convey doctrine (one of the original purposes that Luther had in giving music back to the congregation following the Reformation--a way to teach Scripture through song. Previously, the Catholic church had professional musicians singing all the music, and the congregation wasn't involved in the same way). Having said that, there is also musical and spiritual drivel out there, and there seems to be a lack of discretion in many churches about what they are singing. For example, there is alot of Dominion and Charismatic theology contained the much of the "new music" coming from the Vineyard movement. Cessationist churches should check the lyrics and see if they actually believe what they are singing! We have had to "throw out" some songs because they failed in this area.

    As far as having a leader up front, I hear what you are saying. Unfortunately, we have found at our church, that the congregation seems to lack confidence in singing out if someone is not there to help them out. No one wants to be the one to jump in by themselves in the wrong spot--talk about embarrasing (and I have done it myself)! That is why it is helpful to have a strong vocal leader. However, they don't necessarily have to be at the front facing the congregation. I have led from the piano before. We have experimented with having the worship team on the floor at the side facing away from the congregation. But they were blocking the words on the screen for some behind them, so we put them on the stage again but off to the side with the words front and centre. Our musicians are on the floor and to the side. (By the way, we still use our organ too, so don't despair of finding a church that has a mixture of styles).

    You made an excellent comment about needing to remember that the worship is not all about ME but about the LORD. Also, we have sacrificed in the past to be a church where the music was quite uninspiring but the Bible teaching was excellent. In a perfect world, there would be both, but that is not always the case. Also, worship is the sacrifice of our lives, not just what we sing at church. John MacArthur has a good book on this topic.

    I could go on and on. However, I want to give others a chance to resond

  • reneeisorym
    reneeisorym

    The first church I went to was a church that had two services. One was contemporary and had the lights down low/rock band onstage/worship leader who would ask you to put your hands in the air and get on your knees and such. The other service was more traditional. Regular lighting/organ/piano/worship leader would just say "Stand and let's sing number 256 in your hymnal, "Joy to the Lord"'

    I began to go to the contemporary one. I loved it. Just coming out of the JWs, my spiritual journey was like a roller coaster and emotional. The music gave me a chance to sing out some of my emotions I was feeling to God. But you just can't expect that same emotional responose time and time again. Your relationship with God will change as you grow. It reminds me of a new relationship with your husband. You start out giddy and in love -- butterflies. But as you grow together, you have a more steady, lasting, respect and appreciation.

    As I progressed, my spiritual journey became more like a slow steady ride in God's arms and I quit living a roller coaster. Many of the calls for "emotional manipulation" I couldn't feel because I was on meat and I didn't feel the same emotions. For example, once the pastor called everyone who needed hope to get own their knees and pray. People were on their knees, crying, praying. I had hope. I had faith and I didn't need to ask God for hope because I had a strong hope in His promises. I eventually got frustrated at the constant calls for emotions I didn't have. I was feeling like singing out in praise and joy and quiet meditation on Him was what was genuine in my heart.

    I moved churches to a traditional church. This one seems to encourage my natural emotions and I feel much more sincere in worship. It also seems much more RESPECTFUL. I feel like God is worshipped as a glorious mighty Father and King who is sovereign instead of worshipped as a friend who will pat your back and tell you it is ok.

  • Sad emo
    Sad emo
    There's even a song called "Undignified" based on how David danced when he brought in the Ark and said, "I will become even more undignified than this."

    hmike - that's used as a worship song where you are?! I've heard it David Crowder style and would never consider it as worship music - praise maybe, but not worship!

    I suppose another way of looking at worship styles is that even the 18th-19th century hymns would have been considered as 'rowdy' when they replaced the choral/Gregorian chant stuff.

    Ah yes, how do the oldies go now - 'I surrender all some', 'Just as I am, without one plea begrudgingly'...

    Worship = old English word meaning attribution of worth to someone, yep, it's all about Him, not us.

    One of my degree modules this semester is 'Worship' so I'm bookmarking this thread for ideas - truthsearcher, I could be picking your brains a bit more soon!

  • hmike
    hmike

    hmike - that's used as a worship song where you are?! I've heard it David Crowder style and would never consider it as worship music - praise maybe, but not worship!

    Yes, it's all part of encouraging people to drop "inhibitions" and let loose.

    We are standing most of the time, and I notice many people worship like they are waiting for a bus. As long as people are free to participate (or not) as they feel or see fit, I can go with that. The trouble I saw with traditional churches is that any outward expression that was different (raising hands, clapping, kneeling) did not seem acceptable. When there is real pressure exerted to act a specific way, that's when I would exit.

    Thank you, truthsearcher, for your input. I have wondered if pastors go to seminars or conferences where they are told something like, "Research has shown that..." and they design the services accordingly.

  • Robdar
    Robdar
    Not if you really are a child of God.

    D-dog, if I am a child of God, I AM the Church, no matter where I am or where I go. Think about it and try not to judge me because I do not go to a church. There are better things to do with your time than worry about where I am on a Sunday.

    Now, then. This is XJW's thread. Let's not highjack it. If you want to talk, pm me.

  • Maddie
    Maddie

    I have been to a couple of "Happy-clappy" type churches and at first I was a bit overwhelmed because it was so different from the JW's sombre meetings. Then I saw how sincere and joyful the people were and the ones I went to didn't seem enforced. There were also more subdued songs which were sung with lots of emotional feeling. I found it all quite refreshing.

    Maddie

  • LouBelle
    LouBelle
    I AM the Church, no matter where I am or where I go

    Robdar - we have something in common.

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