Jesus is the Key

by potentialJWconvertswife 50 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  AudeSapere

  Potential wrote: ask Jesus to be your savior and forgive you of your sins

  Ummm...

  Maybe another way to say how JWs put their spin is: Thru Jesus, they ask Jehovah to save them and to forgive their sins.

  It may seem to be semantics but 'current truth' of the WTS really just recognizes Jesus superficially. Jehovah is the reader of hearts and forgiver of sins. Jesus is the mediator - but now just for the FDS.

  I think that's how they see it officially. Most individual witness *think* they are saved via Jesus, but in actuality, their literature, prayers and doctrines are really not 'Jesus-based.' They are 'Jehovah-based.'

  Be sure to read thru that link that BurntheShips provided. Pay special attention to the shift that occured in 1985 (from the 1973 verbage). Sounds more legal-minded. Dont you think??

  -Aude.
• 

  tula

  in the name of

  Some religious groups like Pentecostals are very particular about this phrase and make an issue of it. (similar way JWs make issue of cross/stake...trivial)

  Pentecostals only baptise "in the name of Jesus."

  Their doctines explain that Jesus said "I come in my Father's name." And because Jesus sent "the Comforter, Holy Spirit" at Pentecost, the HS was in Jesus's name also.

  So, just before they dunk you...the only thing said by person officiating is

  "I baptise you in the name of Jesus."
• 

  AudeSapere

  Tula wrote: So, just before they dunk you...the only thing said by person officiating is

  "I baptise you in the name of Jesus."

  Are you referring to the Pentacostals or to JWs??

  I don't think the JW elders that are actually in the water doing the physical baptism say anything in particular.

  Do they? Can someone still or recently 'in' confirm???

  -Aude.
• 

  Zico

  "I don't think the JW elders that are actually in the water doing the physical baptism say anything in particular.
  
  Do they? Can someone still or recently 'in' confirm???"
  
  No Aude, they don't say anything, you're right.
  
  It doesn't have to be elders who do the baptism. I'm not sure if there's a minimum requirement to baptise other than the dunker has to be baptised himself and be male?
• 

  tula

  Are you referring to the Pentacostals or to JWs??

  I am referring to Pentecostals, Aude.

  They think all other baptisms are invalid because other denominations do not baptise "correctly" by saying "in the name of Jesus".

  They believe this is a very critical point in having "salvation."

  As you can see from this example, each religion seems to think they have some point of
  "superiority" that renders all other religions invalid.
• 

  BurnTheShips

  It doesn't have to be elders who do the baptism. I'm not sure if there's a minimum requirement to baptise other than the dunker has to be baptised himself and be male?

  The way I see it, anyone can baptize, even a pagan or an atheist. So long as it is done the right way, it is valid.
• 

  tula

  The way I see it, anyone can baptize, even a pagan or an atheist. So long as it is done the right way, it is valid.

  well, you have certainly opened a can of worms now.

  Please tell us.....WHAT IS THE RIGHT WAY?
• 

  Zico

  "The way I see it, anyone can baptize, even a pagan or an atheist."
  
  Fine Burn, I meant minimum requirement in the JW religion.
  
  "As you can see from this example, each religion seems to think they have some point of "superiority" that renders all other religions invalid."
  
  Just because the pentacostals might, it doesn't mean all other religions do tula.
• 

  tula

  "As you can see from this example, each religion seems to think they have some point of "superiority" that renders all other religions invalid."
  
  Just because the pentacostals might, it doesn't mean all other religions do tula.

  I think you are wrong Zico.

  If each religion did not have some point of "superiority" that renders all other religions invalid, then there would be one universal religion.

  Each denomination, cult, sect, whatever...thinks they have a unique position, doctrine, etc. which makes them closer to God than anybody else.

  If there were no ideas of superiority, there would be no need for divisions and such a myriad of denominations.
• 

  BurnTheShips

  Please tell us.....WHAT IS THE RIGHT WAY?

  Here is a good point of departure:

  Matthew 28:19: Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them inthe name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

  The Didache:

  Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism. And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whoever else can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.

  http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-roberts.html

  I agree wiith this minimal framework:

  The Essential Parts

  If you want the baptism to meet the requirements for as many churches as possible, it must have the following three features:

  • You must have the intention of performing a valid baptism.
  • For example, if children are playing church or if you perform a baptism as part of a play, or you are horsing around in a swimming pool, it is not a valid baptism.
  • Water must be involved.
  • Immersion is valid in all churches, but since this is an emergency, that is probably not practical. Instead, pour water on the candidate’s head three times. (This instruction goes back to the first-century document called the Didache, or the Teaching of the Twelve Apostles.) You must use the formula in Matthew 28:19.
  • You must say to the candidate, “I baptize you in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” You can add any additional wording that you like, but it’s probably best to stick to the bare essentials. If you substitute other formulas or if you baptize only in Jesus’ name, the baptism may be valid in some churches, but in most churches, it won’t be valid.
  • In Matthew 28:19, Jesus gives us the words to say when we baptize in His name .

  http://www.kencollins.com/how-04.htm