Jesus is the Key (page 2)

AudeSapere

Potential wrote: I guess what I'm getting at on the Baptism is that most Christian churches say (as they are dunking or putting the water on the head) "I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" or something incredibly close to that. Also, we mostly believe that unless you specifically ask Jesus to be your savior and forgive you of your sins you are damned to eternal hell. Do JW's ask Jesus to forgive them of their sins?

I understand your question but I don't think it's a simple 'yes' or 'no' answer. As JWs, we were trained to say and believe that "Yes. Of course we believe that Jesus is our personal savior. We were even baptized in his name and close all our prayer with 'in Jesus' name'."

The reality, however, is different. The flock is confused on the society's current understanding. Also, to say 'no' would alienate too many people and cause trouble for the individuals and the collective.

The questions asked immed before baptism (vows) should give an inkling.

-Aude.

Gopher

unless you specifically ask Jesus to be your savior and forgive you of your sins you are damned to eternal hell.

The first baptism question covers the forgiveness/repentance part. Although the JW's don't require you specifically ask Jesus to be your savior at the time of baptism, they do at least believe that.

Of course, as you may know, JW's don't believe in "eternal hell". They believe hell is a temporary holding place until God resurrects them for a second chance at life.

(Oops - posted almost the same answer as Aude Sapere did. Great minds....)

tula

Are JW's baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit??

in the name of

So what are the NAMES?

Father= Jehovah

Son= Jesus

Holy Spirit= what is the NAME of the Holy Spirit. This would make "it" more of an entity, not just an "active force".

nvrgnbk

Holy Spirit= what is the NAME of the Holy Spirit. This would make "it" more of an entity, not just an "active force".

Not really.

I can do something in the name of...

freedom

democracy

love

etc.

BurnTheShips

Most Christians would consider the babptism invalid for the following reasons:

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES:

It appears that the Jehovah's Witnesses are fundamentalists,

Unitarians. The Divinity of Christ is explicitly denied, as is the existence of the Holy Spirit as a

person. In the ceremony of baptism there is a discourse. It is really a symbol of dedication

rather than baptism. The person enters the water, but his name is not called out. No words or

formula are pronounced while the person is submerged or immersed in the water. If matter and

form are valid, the intention of the minister is to baptize the person into the Jehovah's Witness

sect, thereby not intending that the person be baptized in the name of the triune God. This is

evident since the Divinity of Christ and the personality of the Holy Spirit are denied. These

latter refer simply to a power exerted by Jehoveh, who alone is God. Invalid.

AudeSapere

I just read thru BurnTheShips' posted link and you can see the subtle (and not-so-subtle) changes that have been made to the vows over the years.

Aude.

tula

NVRGNBK said

I can do something in the name of...
freedom
democracy
love

I can do something in the name of... love

Like this?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5472940803893648387&q=stop+in+name+of+love&total=2115&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

Zico

I think 'in the name of' means 'in the authority of'

AA, I understand your point. The main problem I have with the Jehovah's Witnesses viewpoint on Jesus is not that they believe he's Michael the Archangel, it's that they tell their members that it's a sin to worship Jesus and pray to him. I think this is where the major difference between Jehovah's Witnesses and Christianity lies.

proplog2

Converts Wife:
Get baptized in the name of the father, son, and holy ghost, grab a gun and go kill Vietnamese, Koreans, Iraqis, Serbs, etc. etc.
Why do you need to carefully follow a ritual when you are going to do the very opposite of what Christ taught?
Jesus is not the key! YOU are the key! You either follow Christ or it doesn't matter.
Who needs this kind of stupidity?

nvrgnbk

Exactly, tula.

LOL

I actually was thinking of that song.

The main problem I have with the Jehovah's Witnesses viewpoint on Jesus is not that they believe he's Michael the Archangel, it's that they tell their members that it's a sin to worship Jesus and pray to him. I think this is where the major difference between Jehovah's Witnesses and Christianity lies.

Even as an atheist I see that clearly, Zico.

Good explanation.

Jesus is the Key

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