Yes, thank you WT... I'm socially inept.
Did the WT Discourage Platonic Friendships Between Men & Women ?
by flipper 31 Replies latest jw friends
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flipper
BURGER TIME- Probably the reason you weren't talked to is that you hung out with your female friends during the day - in full view , as opposed to seeing them at night. The elders would have been on you like flies on , well , you know.
CRUMPET- Yeah, the chaperone thing was weird. It's crazy your dad made you stay in the car as a sleepy 6 year old at 11 P.M. at night just to be " present " to avoid naysayers talking about him dropping off a female Bible Study ! It's too bad people got on your case about talking to the boy in your congregation too ! They truly are nosy, paranoid freaks !
AWAKE & WATCHING- It truly is bizarre they think men and women can't be good friends .
OPEN MIND- It truly is creepy how the society beat it into the elders brains about not being alone with a sister ! They must have thought that due to sin and imperfection that all elders were potential " fornicators in waiting " or something !
MINIMUS- Men bonding with men at Bethel ? No ! Tell me something I don't know . That explains why the old men serving there look haggard and worn ! LOL! I have definitely heard of women throwing themselves at elders in a desperate situation before - but I also noticed, the elders didn't say , no ! Some sisters regarded elders as rock stars I really believe . And, yes, they did put way too much stress on young people with the chaperone thing. I think the strict views caused many a witness teenager to sneak around and marry too early. I know - I was one of them !
MYABABES- I think the elders thought we would all have sex if we were alone with a member of the opposite sex ! I think they just projected what they would do in that situation ! Pervs.
DAGNEY- I agree with you. I think this counsel has caused ex-witnesses to develop into social misfits in dealing with the opposite sex ! I'm glad you encourage young people to have friends of both sexes . That experience you shared is a good example of how misguided and wrong the witnesses are in assuming the worst in people . Thanks. Good experience.
SIR 82- I think if the Watchtower society expects people to go to bed with each other - and that is what happens , then the Watchtower society gets what it deserves ! People will tend to rise to whatever you expect of them, expect good they'll do it, expect bad, you'll get that as well.
IDMOMO- That was frigging hilarious ! An elder counseled you not to call on a 85 year old sister alone ? I know what it was. He just wanted the sister for himself - he was jealous ! LOL!
B DESERTER- I agree with your take. I think by making people nervous about sex from the beginning - it puts too much emphasis on it in the first place. Then, because people feel they will be unchaste or committ immorality they marry out of a fear of being DFed for immorality. Not a right motive for marriage !
SEAWOLF- So your folks kept you away from the young women, eh ? I know what you are saying - probably because you were a goodlooking guy, they kept you away from pursuing the hotties ! Life is unfair at times !
TULA- Thanks for the " Driving Miss Daisy " analogy.
AUDE SAPERE- That is funny ! A 19 or 20 year old married couple to " chaperone " older people ? That is really messed up !
OUTLAW- You didn't know Mr. Flipper very well as a teenager did you ? I did have sex out in service ( almost ) in the 1970's! While dating my witness fiance I always checked out " rural " territory - the kind you go work in when nobody else is around so as to not spy on you making out with your girlfriend ! LOL! Yes, it is about sex, sex, sex Outlaw . It's what makes the world go round ! LOL! Peace out, Mr. Flipper -
flipper
VOIDEATER - Yeah, it is true. It seemed to me that when we were witnesses they didn't want us interested in girls unless marriage was on the horizon ! I noticed that as well ! I too don't know many single ex-witness women either !
MINCAN- I know what you mean buddy. The WT made a lot of young men and women have inadequate feelings approaching the opposite sex - because they were much too controlling over us as young people ! Now that we are out - is the time to take back control of our own personal lives ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper -
mentalclearness
well I always had some good male friends when I was a teenager in the org..In fact it seems I always had at least one best friend who was a guy. I went to concerts with him and we hung out all the time. In fact the only time the line was drawn was when we wanted to drive up to atlanta together alone. My mom was fine with it but his mom pitched a fit....But then again i had a liberal mom and I was pretty discreet about who i hung out with. I think my mom was just happy I had a friend in the organization. There were always rumors about us being a couple etc...but we knew it was false so it didn´t bother me. Never got any advice on it either from the elders...But we went to different halls. And we used to hang out together late..Like eating at denny´s at 3 am after a concert....But I guess know one really knew except our parents and they trusted us.. Which is right because nothing ever happened between us......
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brinjen
When I was 13 I was friends with a non-dub boy in my school. I didn't have a lot of friends back then, we started talking one day and found we had a lot of common interests and got along really well. During my several "back room chats" at the KH, I was if I was having sex with this boy and if I was on the pill. The elder's reasoning was I was spending time with him alone, and Satan is always looking to snare us away from jehoba...
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worldtraveller
there have been some cases of women throwing themselves at elders - Are you freaking kidding me? That has to be the most sexist pile of nonsense I have ever seen on this board. Like a bunch of pedophiles would never touch or hit on a woman. Pure sexist bull.
And as far as disgracing the Jehovah real estate corp, I think the GB has been successful in destroying what little crediblity the corp actually had with their own satanic behaivour.
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flipper
MENTAL CLEARNESS- It is amazing how people will start rumors and false innuendoes about men and women being together. So it sounds like your mom was cool with things - but others you knew were very strict about platonic relationships .
BRINJEN- That is so sad and ridiculous that elder treated you that way as a young woman. To harass you over talking to a young man ? Crazy. Elders love to impute wrong motives and wrongdoing to people - even if it has not happened ! They always expect the worst out of people .
WORLD TRAVELLER- I also saw just as many elders try to pick up on sisters and flirt with them shamelessly at times. I agree the GB has destroyed their own credibility -
neverendingjourney
This is a big reason why I've had very little success integrating myself into the dating world after I left the JWs. Like someone already said, we were programmed to believe that being friends with a woman, or finding yourself alone with one, was evil because it could easily lead to sex. It therefore follows that if a woman makes an attempt to be your friend or if she ever puts herself in a position to be alone with you, she must be sexually attracted to you. Intellectually, I know this is just plain stupid, but it's part of my programming and it's been very difficult to overcome. Moreover, this kind of thinking has killed my ability to discern when a woman really does have a romantic interest in me.
For a long time, I thought that a woman had a romantic interest in me if she made any attempt to be my friend, even something as simple as a co-worker inviting me to lunch or to a party. This was the case even with married women. Of course, I never discussed this with anyone. It was simply the first thing that popped in my mind: "she must have a crush on me." I tried really hard to overcome it because I know it's plain silly, but it's hard to deprogram yourself from that mindset. We were never given an opportunity to develop relationships with the opposite sex in a natural and healthy environment. This is one of the biggest challenges I now face a grown man in my late 20s. I never learned the lessons about love and dating that normal people learn in their adolesence and young adulthood. As a result, I find myself mostly avoiding the dating scene in order to avoid embarrasing myself. I've now been able to develop some friendships with married women and women in committed relationships, but every now and then I still find myself thinking that they might be attracted to me. I know they're not, but from time to time those old JW thoughts creep into my mind. Damn that stupid religion!
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flipper
NEVERENDINGJOURNEY - Hey guy, I know how you feel ! I was raised in the witnesses and after divorcing from my first wife ( a witness ) in 1998 , I took about a year off before dating again. I too felt strange as I was out of the witnesses awhile and was not much of an expert telling whether a woman wanted to be just friends , or be a girlfriend with me ! I too, think it was because of the lack of normal female friendships as a witness teenager ! I married young 19 as a witness because hey , we weren't supposed to date unless we wanted marriage, right ?
It was later on in my early 40's after my divorce from my witness wife I was able to tell the difference if a woman wanted to just be friends , or start a relationship. If the woman came onto me , and started wanting to go out, I started learning real quick if she was giving me signals that she wanted a physical relationship . And I discovered that unlike in the witness belief , many times it was good to follow the woman's lead and take the hint she wanted more .A man didn't always have to " take the lead " as the witnesses preached . That way, a guy does not embarrass himself by pursuing too much , especially if the woman isn't looking for it, or doesn't want it, but just friendship. I've learned a hell of a lot since leaving the witnesses about men and women. Read a lot of relationship books as well. It helps. Finally found a good gal, my wife. Good luck guy, Peace out, Mr. Flipper -
dinah
Great thread, Mr. Flipper.
As it was said earlier, they are projecting what they would do. In CoC, Bro Franz (yes, I still call him brother, he's dear to me) related a conversation where one of the GB members stated that if they gave the publishers an inch they would take a mile. Talk about an iron fist. I'll look that up tomorrow and post the page number.
Thankfully, my Dad wasn't JW and my Mom was a little more lenient than many folks' parents.
There is paranoia about sex in the borg. You can't attend a single meeting without fornication or masturbation being mentioned. Well-adjusted, healthy people can usually find something else to talk about besides sex----not the borg though. Think about it, by the time you get married as a dub, if you were born in you have heard probably 25,000 discussions about the danger of sex and losing Jehovah's favor. Gimme a break! How can anyone have a healthy sex life after that??? It could be what breeds some of the pervs that run the organization. Actually that probably a chicken or the egg question, come to think of it.
If you are alone with a person of the opposite sex, you will fornicate! How ridiculous! Whew! rant over.
Now, most of my friends are men, and hubby is fine with that because he knows all of them. I have several males friends that I went to high school with. Hubby's best friend is also my friend. I get along better with men, but I think that is because my Mom was so trying so hard to fit me into that JW mold. My Dad always loved me just the way was. Mother's love was conditional. I have a hard time making friends with other women. Weird, huh?
Excuse the typos, it's been a rough day and I don't feel like proof reading.