Did/Does God really love people?

by buffalosrfree 26 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Satanus


    How do you know that satan hates us? How many people has he killed? How many has jehovah killed?


  • eclipse

    Satan is Love! This is a strategy in the invisible war against Jehovah the Oppressor. Satan is here on earth to free people from the oppression of religious zealots and God... God hates us all because Satan wanted the angels to be free. Read the book of Enoch, You will find the reason why Lucifer sacrified his life. Jehovah God made us as slaves, but Satan was the one that loved us.

    I fixed it, Aleman.

  • Satanus

    I see no evidence that god loves us.


  • nomoreguilt

    aleman!!!!!! You are back!! And what's a good little dub like you doing reading the book of Enoch??? tell us that you aren't an .OMG !!..aleman's an apostate......I am sure that the end is near now!!!How about a little prophecy here , aleman....

  • VoidEater

    There is no evidence that God loves us...and as I've said in other posts, whatever I experience as "God" is just as easily seen as bats in my belfry. I was just commenting within the context of the thread.

    I still don't understand what God needs with a "strategy", though. If He meant to do something like a thief in the night, wouldn't (say) the year before Russel was born have been a perfect time?

    Why does he need to prove anything to us, or anyone?

    If He's trying to get everyone into the WTS, why hasn't he delivered effective means to His organization?

    All the evidence suggests He has left the building, if He was here at all.

  • Abandoned

    Does God really love people?

    Interesting question. Made even more interesting since he either chooses not to or is incapable of answering the question conclusively. Before I continue, I need to clear up my use of the male pronoun when referring to God. I realize that God as a sexual being is completely unsubstantiated. My use of the male pronoun, therefore, is based on habit and my feeling that referring to God as IT is going to annoy the theists a tad bit more than referring to God as HIM will annoy the Women's Rights groups. Perhaps I feel that as a group, women are more forgiving than those religiously inclined. At any rate, I will be sticking with HE/HIM/HIS throughout this thesis.

    Before we can continue any further, terms need to be defined.

    Love. What is love? Since love can be tough, all-encompassing, conditional, unconditional, and posess many other contradictory attributes, for the purpose of this thesis, I am going to stick to the number one definition found at www.dictionary.com:

    love alt / l?v / Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation [ luhv ] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, loved, lov·ing. –noun

    1.a profoundly tender, passionate affection for another person.

    Based on this widely accepted definition of the word love, what again is the question:

    Does God really have a profoundly tender, passionate affection for people?

    What do the conditions found on the earth today suggest? When answering this question, is it fair for us to put ourselves in God's shoes? Since we can't prove comprehensively that he even exists, we can't prove or disapprove whether he views things as we do or not. So, again, for the purpose of this thesis I'm going to consider that God views emotional issues as does mankind as a whole. i.e. things that mankind considers criminal (stealing, murder, rape, abuse) are things that God considers criminal. And likewise, things that mankind considers righteous and virtuous (honor, loyalty, sacrifice, and charity) are things that God esteems. I would have used the ten commandments as a guide except for two reasons: Number one, the bible isn't universally accepted as having credibility and number two, it weighs disrespect for an invisible being (God) above the actual mistreatment of those visibly present. One further mark against the ten commandments is that no legitimate body of legislation in existence on the earth today mirrors the content found within.

    Profoundly tender. Passionate affection. Notice how both of these phrases are pro-active. Both of them suggest not just noticing something suffering and feeling bad for it, but taking on its suffering and doing whatever is possible to alleviate it. Do we see this type of energy being exerted toward those who suffer today? Are children abused emotionally, physically, and sexually while their abusers go unpunished? Sometimes. Do evil men rise up and enslave their fellow countrymen, beating, imprisoning, and even killing those who oppose their despotic rule? Absolutely. Are earth's abundant resources shared among all people equally? Not at all.

    With just these three examples, do we have any reason at all whatsoever to believe there is an all powerful and loving God watching and helping those who need it? At best, God is either too busy or unable to rise to the challenge. Or perhaps as some theists suggest, he is waiting for things to get even worse before he and his go on a rampage of destruction that pales by comparison the many atrocious acts found in mankind's storied history.

    So to answer the question, does God really love people, my opinion is a resounding NO!

  • VoidEater

    Hi Abandoned: I *love* your post!

    One of the things that enters into my mind, though, is that even with your preferred definition of "love", love is stilljust an experience. We humans expect something to come out of love, quite often.

    As humans, we would like to attach some imperatives upon those that love. And as loving humans we are invariably motivated to particular actions that come from loving. I wholeheartedly approve of this.

    But..."love" is not in itself an imperative to action, in a removed-from-our-humanity context. Love is an experience. Love in itself is not a reason to do something, or be compelled to do something. Just as love can be unconditionally given, it can be unconditionally received.

    Do I "believe" in God? Nope. Not in the stereotypical God I hear about from Christians. But the "God" that I have experienced makes no distinction in what it loves - it loves all equally, blindly, uncaringly.

    Let me beat others to the punch: Yeah, kinda sad, huh? Just an honest expression of what my spiritual journey (such as it is) has led to.

  • Abandoned

    Thanks for the kind words.

    Let me beat others to the punch: Yeah, kinda sad, huh? Just an honest expression of what my spiritual journey (such as it is) has led to.

    I don't think your conclusion is sad in the least. We all do have our own journey and we are affected by things differently. I love nature. I love the wonderful things that exist in nature. I don't even care how they got here too much. But, the guy in charge, the guy watching what's going on right now, does not in any way match a definition of love that I would espouse.

  • Awakened07

    As a JW I had this mental image of God up there in his heaven, crying and writhing as if in pain from all the horrible acts he had to watch humans do in these times, and at the same time almost frothing at the mouth with righteous anger and with an itch in his fingers for coming down here and finally doing something about it and clear his name.

    An omnipotent God hogtied by his own plan for salvation.

    It's as good an explanation as any, I guess.

  • WTWizard

    And wants us to be stagnant and unfulfilled? Wants us to sacrifice to Him when it will cause us hardship and Him no added value? I don't think so.

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