Bible Study Student With A Ton of Questions

by AddaGirl 48 Replies latest jw friends

  • Gopher
    Gopher
    Are we suppose to not use our minds? To blindly follow a group of men?

    If there is a God who created us with a brain, surely he intended us to use it with discernment. The WTS discourages what they call "independent thinking". Logically then, what would be left if you don't have independent thinking? Dependent thinking (upon them)!

    Contrast Psalms 146:3 which says "Do not put your trust in nobles, nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs." (But the WTS says -- that's true, except they claim you can trust THEM! )

    Also in that chapter, the date that Babylon took over Jeruselem, 587 BCE, confirmed with 5 different history books and encyclopedias, changes things dramatically. I did ask about the date. That is suppose to be in this weeks lesson.

    They will tell you that the 607 BCE date is biblically based. If you have any questions about how the Bible itself points to 587, please come back here and ask!

    Are viewpoints like these what get you disfellowshipped? Are questions really not allowed?

    Yes people have been DF'd over the 1914 date issue and what supposedly happened then. Doubt that, and you're viewed as doubting the authority of the organization. (Questions are allowed -- not at the Kingdom Hall, but at places like this.)

  • poppers
    poppers

    Welcome to JWD. With what you are learning I hope you don't get further involved with the dubs. Better to leave now than waste your time and get sucked into something you will have difficulty get out of. Do you have any good reason to continue studying with them?

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    First of all, it is a pleasure to meet you (I am a researcher by nature too)....welcome to the board!!!

    You ask very good questions. You should know that there is a very tight control of information among baptized JWs. As an unbaptized student, you have the freedom to check out non-JW sources, despite being discouraged from doing so, because you have not made a commitment yet. Your study conductor is repeatedly warned or discouraged against reading material critical of the JWs, or spend much time reading non-JW sources on the Bible, or bringing up embarassing points from old literature, or follow a line of thought that is thought to be "apostate". If you asked about the expectations of Armageddon in 1925 and 1975 (or any of their other false prophecies), the old teaching that Jehovah lived in the Pleiades, the teaching in the Finished Mystery book that Behemoth and Leviathan were the steam engine and locomotive, the flip flops on organ transplants and vaccinations, the evidence demonstrating that Jerusalem did not fall in 607 BC, the misquoting and misrepresentation of secular sources in the Creation book, the false evidence used to support the claim that earthquakes have increased since 1914, etc. etc., you would receive a similar response. These are things that JWs aren't supposed to know about, or at least dwell time thinking about.

    Just a few months ago, the Kingdom Ministry reiterated the official view that the organization "provides what is needed so that all of God's people may be 'fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought' " and Christians should shun "foolish questionings and strife" by using "their thinking ability" in a way that supports the organization's preaching work, rather than detracting from it. Thus, it does not approve of JWs who pursue "an independent group study of Biblical Hebrew and Greek so as to analyze the accuracy of the New World Translation," or get together to "explore scientific subjects related to the Bible", or create "Web sites and chat rooms for the purpose of exchanging and debating their views", or act in any other way to "supplement what is provided at our Christian meetings and our literature" (Kingdom Ministry, September 2007, p. 3).

    Now that I have vented, my question is Why?? Why do they keep information from their members?

    Because it would stumble their faith. Simple as that. They want unity of thought among the flock. It could stumble others if some people knew about their past, or expressed views that supplement or contradict what the organization teaches. Everything is supposed to be done to support the organization, the "faithful and discreet slave" class.

    Why do they lie about it and try to cover it up?

    Because what else can you do to keep information from others, when there is free access to it on the internet.

    If they are beating Satan at his own game using his instruments, the UN, to be able to proclaim the good news world wide, why do they feel they have to hide it?

    Because they strenuously condemned other religions for doing the same thing. They know that having an association with the UN organization (even as an NGO) would make them, according to their own rules, part of Babylon the Great. They have previously argued that keeping free from any entanglements with the UN proves that they are not part of Babylon the Great:

    *** w53 9/15 p. 565 par. 2 Posthaste "to the Mountains!" ***

    But we can flee from Christendom spiritually by abandoning her worldly, untheocratic system of things and thus get out of her danger zone, leaving her to her fate and having no part with her in her adulterous connections with the United Nations and any other political and commercial system of this old world. Only then can we be free to declare the day of vengeance of our God against Christendom and all the rest of this Babylonish world. There is only one place to go for safe refuge, and that is under Jehovah’s theocratic new system of things in company with his New World society.

    *** sl chap. 18 pp. 339-340 par. 30 On Whose Side Are We When World Distress Climaxes? ***

    The 138 members of the United Nations organization know that Jehovah’s Christian witnesses are no part of Christendom, no, no part of harlotrous Babylon the Great as a whole. They know that Jehovah’s witnesses have not messed themselves up with the dirty politics of this world and have not tried to ride the symbolic scarlet-colored "wild beast" having seven heads and ten horns.

    *** w87 9/1 pp. 27-28 par. 15 Trust in Jehovah—Not in "a Conspiracy!" ***

    In total disregard of this world-important fact, the nations inside the United Nations settled upon the year 1986 as their International Year of Peace. But Jehovah’s Witnesses are by no means caught off guard in this connection. When the foretold proclamation of "peace and security" is finally made, they will not join political adherents and friendly associates of "Babylon the Great" in the feasting over such a phenomenal feat at this late date in the history of the worldly nations. They advocate no conspiracy with the United Nations or other peace media. (Isaiah 8:12) As a countermeasure, they say in the words of Isaiah 8:20: "To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn." (New International Version) And giving the reason for their immovable position, they say: "For God is with us!" (Isaiah 8:10) Bluntly, that means that Jehovah God is taking no part in the political measures adopted by the nations in behalf of "peace and security" but, rather, is unequivocally against them.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Here is what two top JW officials said under oath in a public trial in 1954 about the duty for JWs to accept false prophecy as truth, even if they may disagree with it, because the organization must have unity. Not much has changed since then. Bear in mind that this is a public record, not something invented by "opposers", but if you tried to bring this material up, it would surely be dismissed as "apostate":

  • beksbks
    beksbks

    Excellent stuff Leolaia, you have a beautiful brain. I'm more of an emotional gut level type. One thing that I could never wrap my heart around even as a child, was that the people I came in contact with (only when there was no way not to) in everyday life, no matter how kind and loving, were all to be destroyed. Just for believing in God in a different way. How can they reconcile that with "God is Love"??

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    beksbks....You should see my parody of this topic, "Why Six Billion People Deserve to Die at Armageddon":

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/134566/1.ashx

    You're right....and I find these statements quite sick and inhumane:

    *** w54 7/15 p. 447 Questions From Readers ***

    The judgments of Jehovah are righteous, and the execution thereof is done in righteousness. Jehovah’s servants, who have his spirit and who love righteousness and hate wickedness, do not mourn the destruction of the wrongdoers at the hand of Jehovah’s appointed executioner. .... There is no general repentance and Armageddon will annihilate the evildoers. Armageddon survivors will not mourn the destruction of those Jehovah judges worthy of it.

    *** w61 12/1 pp. 724-725 United Against Nations in the Valley of Decision ***

    "Into the valley of decision, as into a vast wine-press trough, the King leaps with his army of holy angels. SQUASH! The treading of the nations, including Christendom, begins... Never before in all human history will so many human creatures have been slaughtered. Blood, as representing human lives poured out, will run deep and over a vast distance... With breathless awe they [the survivors] will have looked down from their safe heights into the valley of decision and witnessed how Jehovah gains his magnificent victory by Christ over all the combined nations of Satan’s visible organization. At His victory in vindication of his universal sovereignty we witnesses will sing his praises exultantly and will acknowledge him as our God for all time and eternity. We are near the time of his battle and transcendant victory.

    *** w65 4/1 p. 212 Fulfulling the New Commandment of Love ***

    Yes, today, with Armageddon staring us in the face, we must keep in mind the sobering thought that millions, even billions, of lives may shortly come to a swift and decisive end, putting their onetime owners beyond the reach of any expression of love on our part.

    *** w05 12/1 p. 6 Armageddon -- A Happy Beginning ***

    "Many wonder, however, why a God who is the very embodiment of love would inflict death and destruction on much of humankind. The situation might be compared to that of a pest-infested house. Would you not agree that a conscientious homeowner should safeguard the health and well-being of his family by exterminating the pests? ... The battle of Armageddon is actually one of the best things that could happen to us!

  • Abandoned
    Abandoned
    Now that I have vented, my question is Why?? Why do they keep information from their members? Why do they lie about it and try to cover it up?

    Would you join if you knew up front they were hypocrites?

  • twinkletoes
    twinkletoes

    Welcome Addagirl

    You certainly have come to the right place to ask questions.

    We (my husband & I) were in the JWs for over thirty years each, but we found out about the UN, and asked two elders about it, giving them both copies of the letters received directly from the UN, they never got back to us. We wrote to the London Bethel and the body of elders in the congregation, asking such questions re: UN, Failed Prophecies, Pedophilia in the Organisation and it's cover-up, U-turn on Blood etc. We never received a reply from them, a short time later we were disassociated, and are now totally shunned by everyone who knew us over all those years.

    Listen to your own doubts, research further but get out of the cult before they take hold of you.

    I look forward to hearing more from you

    Twinkletoes

  • momzcrazy
    momzcrazy

    Welcome to JWD. Have you ever heard of intuition? Yours is right on track. Listen to it. I wish I had a long time ago.

    momzcrazy

  • jaguarbass
    jaguarbass

    http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html

    http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/contradictions.html

    http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mark_ball/bible.html

    If you want to study the bible you might try getting some unbiased, independent information with no love boms or angles.

    Just dont tell them you were playing on the puter.

    Theyll make you smash it. The puters from the debil.

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