The Steps Between JWism and Atheism

by compound complex 62 Replies latest jw friends

  • compound complex
    compound complex

    Greetings, Friends:

    I recently put up a thread entitled "When Can I Comment?" New to the thought process of critical thinking, I have felt overwhelmed by the wealth of information now available to a mind opened up to Society-banned material. The reading material has long been out there. The difference is that my mental barriers have fallen away.

    What dots I am yet unable to connect are those tracing the evolution of the thought processes of a card-carrying, true-believer Jehovah's Witness to those of an atheist. It's clear to me now that inside the so-called spiritual paradise, ostensibly unified by the "pure language," were seeds of doubt slumbering in the hearts and minds of outwardly bona fide Kingdom Hall Attenders.

    I have read comments made by former Witnesses become atheists who have intelligently presented their case. My interest lies in whether it was a gradual change in thinking while you were still a JW or if you had an epiphany that forced your exit, mentally if not physically. Or were you totally out and allowing yourself to read materials once avoided? Was the path to your current thinking straight and readily defined or a series of zigs and zags?

    Thank you,

    Compound-Complex

  • MissingLink
    MissingLink

    Mine was a quick jump - one word - Dinosours.

    JWs teach that gods original purpose for the earth was for man and animals to live in peace. But dinosours clearly enjoyed eating each other (not very peacefull). Then look at the fantastic attributes of most animals killing or hiding abilities. The JW fluffy beginning story just doesnt work. Since everything is built on this - the fact that we hope to return to these simpler days - then the whole thing falls apart.

  • Trygon
    Trygon

    When I was a kid I used to love dinosaurs. I had my posters, magazines, toys, the works. Though I am still Christian, I think dinosaurs and prehistory are rockin'. Drag me round a museum any day. .... Great.... now I sound like a freaky uber nerd.

  • nicolaou
    nicolaou

    Good thread CoCo

    I left JWism because I found doctrinal teachings I could no longer square with the Bible. The 144,000, Faithful & Discreet Slave and 607/587 being the big ones. For some years I continued to pray, read the scriptures and call myself a Christian.

    Trouble was that by now I had gotten into the habit of doing detailed research - and I loved it!

    Everything was up for grabs, including God himself. It took a while longer but eventually I realised that faith was an extremely poor substitute for reason. It wasn't a 'lightbulb' moment but when my thoughts began to crystalise there was no turning back.

    I highly recommend 'Straight & Crooked Thinking' by R H Thouless for anyone interested in how logic and reason can enhance your thinking abilities.

  • Maddie
    Maddie

    I am not an atheist so that isn't an issue for me (yet), but I found out the WT was a deceptive cult so I left.

    Maddie

  • Superfine Apostate
    Superfine Apostate

    my steps (officially stayed JW through all of them):

    1. i found out that the brothers just don't live up to their own standards. this made me study the bible, jw history, church history and the like. i stopped placing watchtowers and went into service with my elberfelder bible only.

    2. studying the bible made me a bible-christian. i started to discuss with other ex-jw bible-christians in online forums. studying the bible of course leads to several problems: there's just too much nonsense (see: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com)

    3. now i tried some different views on the bible. that the deluge was just a local thing, that the adam and eve story was methaphorical and so on. which made me pretty much a liberal christian. i had a hard time justifying all this stuff to myself though.

    4. i finally came to the conclusion, that the "old testament" has nothing godly or holy in it. it's nothing more than myths. and as jesus refers to old testament stories as historical, i simply trashed the "new testament" along with it. (did a lot of research on apocryphal and pseudepigraphical writings back then)

    5. now i still had that god in my mind, but it was not so personal anymore. i thought a lot about different religions and noticed how much they are alike. i'd call myself an agnostic in that phase. i've heard too many stupid things about atheism as a JW and just was not ready for that final step.

    6. research, logical arguments found in the internet, many sleepless nights and even some final prayers ultimately did the rest. there's just no reason to believe in any type of god/ess. and even if there was a god - there's no reason to believe that ANYONE (or any book) would know any more about it/her/him than myself.

  • Trygon
    Trygon

    Just goes to show that the JWs aren't really doing Christianity any favours. Just pumping out atheists like a factory. Someone just shut the WTS down for good, for the love of God!

  • Awakened07
    Awakened07

    Well - just to have said it right up front; it was not that I had been a JW, so now I was "mad at God" or bitter because of that.

    I didn't flip from JW to atheist "in two easy steps". It was a long, continuous journey. My atheism is well researched, not some whim I had because I "hate JWs". That may be the case with some, but not me. I could easily have turned elsewhere, if "elsewhere" had had anything rational to serve up.

    I also think it's important to point out that an atheist is not necessarily someone who vehemently denies the possibility of a God existing. Neither are they necessarily immoral, lack appreciation of beauty, or are emotionally dead. Neither are atheists one homogeneous group who have the same "beliefs" or share a common philosophy. Some are well researched, some are just atheist because they are raised atheist and haven't really thought about it much.

    My former self of fifteen years ago would probably 'hate' my current self if "we" met, but only until I got to know my current self (!). I'm not really that different. Just a different way of thinking, and more information to process now.

    Long after becoming 100% inactive, I still prayed, and I still believed in Jehovah. But since I was inactive, I had to ask myself; "Why exactly do you believe in Jehovah? Where did you get that name from in the first place?". So I continued to believe, but now in the more general "God", or at least "Creator".

    Then I started reading(!), and decided I at least couldn't take the Bible literally anymore. That's not really a biggie in and of itself initially, since many religious people pick and choose what to believe and take literally, but I had always learned that the Bible is a whole, coherent work, and many Christian denominations still believe so; that that's a sign it's the word of God in the first place. In fact, the whole idea of a biblical 'canon' is largely based on which books quote from other books. Picking and choosing of course also brings the problem of what parts to "keep" and what parts to "discard", and many denominations differ in opinion on that (and will often damn you to hell for believing differently than their own 'pickings').

    But people still pick and choose, so why couldn't I? It's like a house of cards. You can't keep taking away cards and expect the house to keep standing.

    For instance (one small example); I could no longer take the flood story of Noah as a literal, global flood anymore. And a local flood wouldn't make sense either, as Noah then would have had plenty of years to warn people to flee the area, and to flee himself, with any animals that would be needed to save (animals usually take care of themselves when a natural disaster comes close though).

    So why is that even important? Why not just take the flood story as a story, perhaps an allegory? Well - apart from wondering exactly what that allegory was supposed to teach me, it's a problem that 'the flood of Noah's day' is mentioned throughout the Bible, and Noah is part of its genealogy. It is - and he is - definitely treated as a historic fact by the later biblical writers, and Jesus 'himself' mentions the story. That's a problem, because to me, that undermines the veracity of Jesus himself. Not the historicity of Jesus, but he should know better, being (the Son of) God. "You can take Jesus out of the Bible, but you can't take the Bible out of Jesus".... or.... something...

    I also feel that a book somehow given to us from the Creator should contain more detailed and accurate explanations of the world around us. What's the point of an allegorical story of Creation for instance, when you can "tell it like it is"? "Those poor peasant/desert people wouldn't be able to understand" ? No, I don't buy it. First of all, it should still be accurate, and second of all - if a child can understand it today, a grown-up back then would have understood it, being educated by God.

    Well - I'm not going to go on and on here. Suffice to say, after a while, the Bible itself became not much more than an old book (it actually wasn't written 150 years ago, you know! ) with interesting stories and some history.

    God was still there though.

    But why was God there? What was he actually doing, and what had he done? Well - even if the Bible was more or less out the window for me, God had still created the universe and life. But in my own life, I could not recollect any prayer that had been answered in a clear cut way. And never a "yes"; in other words, never something I could point to and say "If it hadn't been for God intervening, that wouldn't have happened". On a more global scale, there were billions of other people - of various religions - praying, but ~30.000 children die every day. Perhaps God has a plan? Perhaps those praying don't have enough faith? Perhaps they belong to the wrong religion or denomination? Well - for some reason, I had stopped being a judgmental asshole after I became inactive, and I wouldn't let God get away with being one either, 'plan' or not.

    But that would be anti-theism, not atheism, surely?

    Well, yes - there was still the issue of someone having to have created all this. Very long story very short; no, not necessarily so, even if that thought is initially unintuitive.

    I'm an ex-JW atheist, waiting for God(ot?) to possibly show up somehow.

    If he does, I hope he has a good alibi. And if most Christian denominations turn out to be correct, I'm going to say to him what Moses said: "Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people.". Perhaps then "the LORD [will repent] of the evil which he thought to do unto his people."

    I'm not holding my breath in anticipation of his arrival, though.

    I could write more extensively on these subjects, and I'm also fully aware of apologetics for some of these things, but I'm not writing a book here, just a short forum reply.

  • serotonin_wraith
    serotonin_wraith

    I was an atheist at birth. I was then indoctrinated to believe in Jehovah. I had no choice in the matter, my mind was still forming and I trusted my parents.

    The way I see it, there are only two (bad) reasons people believe in God.

    1. They want there to be a God.

    2. They don't know all the facts.

    Number 1 didn't apply to me, I didn't want there to be a God. I would have been happier knowing Jehovah didn't exist. All I saw was fear and threats. Number 2 applied to me, because I just hadn't come to learn certain things yet. I didn't know the details of evolution, the real age of the universe, I didn't know the science went against a worldwide flood, I didn't know all the arguments against religious 'proofs', and so on. As I learnt those kinds of things, there was no longer any reason to believe in God.

    I've never really wondered about the other gods. I wasn't indoctrinated to believe in them (or other Christian religions) so I didn't. Same as I didn't believe in faries, Santa and the Easter bunny. I used common sense and saw them all as silly beliefs.

    The way JWs describe God - as a big threat - didn't allow my want for God (the 1st reason) to exist. There are Christians here who say that God is more loving than the way the JWs described him, but I don't see that in the Bible. I still see a threatening god with an ego problem, and I think those Christians are just picking out the nice verses - because they want there to be a god.

    Others know about the facts, but choose to ignore them because their want is so great. Where they would be quick to point to scientific proof for God if it became available, they choose not to believe science in other matters now. Like the verses in the Bible, they pick and choose which scientific facts they like and which they don't.

  • compound complex
    compound complex

    Dear Friends,

    I have awakened to a varied and quite thought-provoking array of comments on my question. I appreciate everyone of them as they will help me piece together the related fragments of information I have so far. Research and evaluation of the facts certainly seem key. Our supposed unity of thought as JWs, I'm beginning to see, was only an attractive veneer covering over shoddy and ill-fitting materials formed into some sort of human edifice.

    Very grateful for your personal accounts,

    CoCo

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