U.S has a right to kidnap British Citizens

by sammielee24 9 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • sammielee24
    sammielee24

    This is interesting.....

    US says it has right to kidnap British citizens

    David Leppard

    AMERICA has told Britain that it can “kidnap” British citizens if they are wanted for crimes in the United States.

    A senior lawyer for the American government has told the Court of Appeal in London that kidnapping foreign citizens is permissible under American law because the US Supreme Court has sanctioned it.

    The admission will alarm the British business community after the case of the so-called NatWest Three, bankers who were extradited to America on fraud charges. More than a dozen other British executives, including senior managers at British Airways and BAE Systems, are under investigation by the US authorities and could face criminal charges in America.

    Until now it was commonly assumed that US law permitted kidnapping only in the “extraordinary rendition” of terrorist suspects.

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    The American government has for the first time made it clear in a British court that the law applies to anyone, British or otherwise, suspected of a crime by Washington.

    Legal experts confirmed this weekend that America viewed extradition as just one way of getting foreign suspects back to face trial. Rendition, or kidnapping, dates back to 19th-century bounty hunting and Washington believes it is still legitimate.

    The US government’s view emerged during a hearing involving Stanley Tollman, a former director of Chelsea football club and a friend of Baroness Thatcher, and his wife Beatrice.

    The Tollmans, who control the Red Carnation hotel group and are resident in London, are wanted in America for bank fraud and tax evasion. They have been fighting extradition through the British courts.

    During a hearing last month Lord Justice Moses, one of the Court of Appeal judges, asked Alun Jones QC, representing the US government, about its treatment of Gavin, Tollman’s nephew. Gavin Tollman was the subject of an attempted abduction during a visit to Canada in 2005.

    Jones replied that it was acceptable under American law to kidnap people if they were wanted for offences in America. “The United States does have a view about procuring people to its own shores which is not shared,” he said.

    He said that if a person was kidnapped by the US authorities in another country and was brought back to face charges in America, no US court could rule that the abduction was illegal and free him: “If you kidnap a person outside the United States and you bring him there, the court has no jurisdiction to refuse — it goes back to bounty hunting days in the 1860s.”

    Mr Justice Ouseley, a second judge, challenged Jones to be “honest about [his] position”.

    Jones replied: “That is United States law.”

    He cited the case of Humberto Alvarez Machain, a suspect who was abducted by the US government at his medical office in Guadalajara, Mexico, in 1990. He was flown by Drug Enforcement Administration agents to Texas for criminal prosecution.

    Although there was an extradition treaty in place between America and Mexico at the time — as there currently is between the United States and Britain — the Supreme Court ruled in 1992 that the Mexican had no legal remedy because of his abduction.

    In 2005, Gavin Tollman, the head of Trafalgar Tours, a holiday company, had arrived in Toronto by plane when he was arrested by Canadian immigration authorities.

    An American prosecutor, who had tried and failed to extradite him from Britain, persuaded Canadian officials to detain him. He wanted the Canadians to drive Tollman to the border to be handed over. Tollman was escorted in handcuffs from the aircraft in Toronto, taken to prison and held for 10 days.

    A Canadian judge ordered his release, ruling that the US Justice Department had set a “sinister trap” and wrongly bypassed extradition rules. Tollman returned to Britain.

    Legal sources said that under traditional American justice, rendition meant capturing wanted people abroad and bringing them to the United States. The term “extraordinary rendition” was coined in the 1990s for the kidnapping of terror suspects from one foreign country to another for interrogation.

    There was concern this weekend from Patrick Mercer, the Tory MP, who said: “The very idea of kidnapping is repugnant to us and we must handle these cases with extreme caution and a thorough understanding of the implications in American law.”

    Shami Chakrabarti, director of the human rights group Liberty, said: “This law may date back to bounty hunting days, but they should sort it out if they claim to be a civilised nation.”

    The US Justice Department declined to comment.

  • Robert K Stock
    Robert K Stock

    The US went to war with Britain in 1812 because the British boarded American ships and kidnapped American citizens the British claimed were British deserters. Now the US is doing the same thing.

    The present government of the USA is so far removed from the ideals of its' founders that it is beyond redemption. The USA has become tyrannical abroad and despotic at home.

    The South should secede again and the rest of the USA should be further broken up into several different countries.

  • skyking
    skyking

    Robert K Stock you sound a little radical.

    I agree that the US has lost its way. Most citizens of the US do not know recent laws have removed their right from them. Just this week I have asked several people if the Government has the right to come and arrest you never let you have a trial and keep you caged for as long as the government wants. Everyone said NO!!!

    The truth is quit different Posse comataus the law of the land has been secretly removed. Posse comataus, most Americans thought was a freedom that could never be taken from them.

    Wake up make a difference. I could write all day about freedoms that the BUSH administration has take from us. The Government is out of control.

  • horrible life
    horrible life

    But, there are a few Brits on this board, that I would like to kidnap, and bring over here. We would have so much fun!

  • JK666
    JK666

    Of course we can! And we will waterboard them and stick them in Gitmo if we want to.

    JK

  • skyking
    skyking

    Digg - Marshall Law = Changes in Posse Comitatus Act and ...

    Changes in Posse Comitatus Act and Insurrection Act made by this administration enables Bush to declare Marshal Law for reasons like "natural disaster, ...

    Trailfire: Posse Comitatus (USC § 1385) no longer law?

    Posse Comitatus (USC § 1385) no longer law? Resources for Posse Comitatus Act. Why nothing on 2nd Amendment? Resources on Separation of Church & State ...
    www.trailfire.com/PatD/markview/30733 - 25k - Cached - Similar pages
  • Finally-Free
    Finally-Free

    This thread reminded me of the case of Sidney Jaffe here in the 1980s when American bounty hunters kidnapped him in Toronto and took him back to Florida. He's mentioned in this article, and a bounty hunter was convicted of kidnapping.

    http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2004/11/24/728898.html

    W

  • Robert K Stock
    Robert K Stock

    Skyking:

    I am a radical. I am a member of the League of the South and I do advocate secession. Like the Parti Quebecois and the Scottish National Party, the League of the South works within the established political framework.

    The League of the South seeks to advance the cultural, social, economic and political well being of the Southern people by all honorable means.

  • Wordly Andre
    Wordly Andre

    OK OK You can have Posh Spice back!!!

  • shell69
    shell69

    Speaking as a brit; and WITHOUT wishing to offend any of my good friends on JWD, as far as most brits see it, USA do exactly what they want and Brittain just goes with the flow!

    Shell69

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