Joel Engardio JW essay on NPR yesterday (link)..decent piece actually...

M.J.

...but I think his conclusions on tolerance are contrary to what JWs practice themselves!

http://www.thisibelieve.org/dsp_ShowEssay.php?uid=27932&topessays=1
(Can someone make this click-able?)

AudeSapere

Is this clickable now? http://www.thisibelieve.org/dsp_ShowEssay.php?uid=27932&topessays=1

I don't have time to look at the link and am not sure who Joel Engardio is.

Is he the guy that did the PBS show that aired a few months ago??

-Aude.

M.J.

Yes, that's him.

Sounds like some of his motivation for that was to please his mom.

Leolaia

Still, I didn’t have a bad childhood. Our Saturday morning ministry meant sacrificing my Saturday morning cartoons, but our 10 o’clock coffee break was a blessing.

Not a bad childhood? Yeah there was a lot more than just no Saturday morning cartoons. Add to that, no birthdays, no Christmas, no trick or treating, no Easter egg hunting, being forced to "make a stand" in the classroom to refuse the flag salute and refuse to enjoy classroom parties if they are birthday or holiday-themed, no school dances or clubs or proms, being forced to go to three meetings a week (including two in the evening on days when you have school the next morning with homework to do), being indoctrinated with the scary belief that the world is going to end any minute now (so what good is school), with many of your non-Witness loved ones dying, being forced not to study and accept certain things that science has demonstrated, having your mind confined by dogma that is supposed to be accepted as the "truth", missing your friend's farewell when they are moving away because you have to go to a stupid JW assembly, having to face an abusive authoritarian when being "babysit" by a JW pioneer, getting spanked publically in the bathroom when you can't sit still during those boooooring meetings you had to go to three times a week, etc. etc. Yeah, not a bad childhood. I'm so glad it only involved missing Saturday morning cartoons!

Oh, and we rarely ever had a 10 o'clock coffee break.

We always knew when you were “home but hiding.”

Now that is true. Especially me. I had phenomenal hearing as a child (sensitive hearing, the clapping at the kingdom hall would hurt my ears), and I could always tell a person was home from the high-pitched tone emitted by a television even when the set is muted -- and I could sometimes hear it across the street.

Obviously I don’t agree with my mom’s belief that same-sex relationships are wrong. But I tolerate her religion because she has a right to her beliefs.

It's too bad the religion's "organization" does not show the same tolerance that he displays. It's easy to forget that it isn't just a "religion" in the sense of a people sharing the same beliefs, there is also an organizational structure that sets policy and controls how people treat each other. Criticism of policy is not necessarily intolerance. Especially when that policy involves discrimination and intolerance.

She’s never voted for a law that discriminates against gay people, or anyone who isn’t a Jehovah’s Witness.

True, but there are many other ways to discriminate against people. In fact, discrimination is most acutely felt in person-to-person interaction, and less in abstract laws that less directly impact people's lives.

The point is the people we don’t understand become less scary when we get to know them as real people.

True again. Unfortunately, the organization does not let the average JW get to know gays, former JWs (i.e. "apostates" as the Society likes to call them), etc. as "real people". They are summarily classed as "bad associations" and JWs are urged to restrict contact with them, even shun them -- even those who had to choose to leave the JWs for conscience reasons. Unfortunately, the organization that JWs recognize as their earthly authority tries to prevent them from "getting to know them as real people".

We don’t have to be each other’s cup of tea, but tolerance lets a variety of kettles peacefully share the stove.

A great ideal, but not practised in the congregation. It is the organization's way, or the highway.

I believe our capacity to tolerate both religious and personal difference is what will ultimately give us true liberty—even if it means putting up with an occasional knock on the door.

But what does the JW child have to put up with if he or she faces a lack of liberty in believing what he/she wants to believe or love who he/she wants to love? Joel should know.

TD

"And I like it that my mom doesn’t politicize her beliefs. She’s never voted for a law that discriminates against gay people, or anyone who isn’t a Jehovah’s Witness. Her Bible tells her to love, above all."

Shame on you Joel. Love has nothing to do with it.

JW's do not vote for laws discriminating against gay persons in part, because they believe that "Jehovah will take care of it." This is, of course, a euphemistic way of expressing the notion that Jehovah will slaughter all his enemies, including gay persons at Armageddon.

M.J.

"Unfortunately, the organization that JWs recognize as their earthly authority tries to prevent them from 'getting to know them as real people'."

Good point. Somehow thinking of the FDS as Ted, Sam, Tony, et al. deflates that sense of awe a notch.

He makes a good point about getting to know persons who belong to a perceived group or category to find out they are simply people. Unfortunately the WTS actually excels in promoting the opposite. They dehumanize real people by their use of labels, categories, and the fallacy of hasty generalization.

"She’s never voted for a law that discriminates against gay people, or anyone who isn’t a Jehovah’s Witness."

Yeah, this bothered me too. Like not voting buys you some kind of instant virtue, despite the fact that you treat certain people like crap.

OnTheWayOut

Joel caught himself between semi-support for the JW's who condemn homosexuals and
the Gay community that he wants respect and support from.

The piece sounds like a bid to get more acceptance from both his mom and that Gay
community. It will probably fail at both.

As far as his mom goes, Joel says, "I like it that my mom doesn’t politicize her beliefs.
She’s never voted for a law that discriminates against gay people, or anyone who isn’t a
Jehovah’s Witness. Her Bible tells her to love, above all."

Well, Joel is twisting the facts. His mother doesn't vote at all. If the WTS demanded that
the members vote against Same-sex marriages, she would probably go along.
POLITICIZE means "to give a political tone to"I suppose you could say that JW's do not give a political tone to their beliefs because they
are against the governments which are tools of Satan. They just want people to let God
rule and destroy all the homosexuals. They talk of it as Theocratic Rule. In a way, that's
a higher form of politicizing.

M.J.

"that is a higher form of politicizing"

Like Gary B says, they aren't neutral, they just promote their OWN government to the exclusion of all others.

drew sagan

My wife played that for me yesterday.

I think he just clueless and isn't well versed in what he is talking about. His attitude seems to be "my mother who is in a strange religion never treated me as bad as those horrible Christian conservatives...." (something he could pander to well on NPR). He also seems to have been lucky in his experience with JWs (never was baptized and never had a "watchtower father" over him). Most of us would agree that he would be singing a different tune if he had grown up in a JW environment where his mother followed all the JW rules (like making your kid get baptized young).

One of the things that makes a great documentary filmmaker is the ability to see beyond your own personal point of view and learn as you go along. It is clear that he has no desire to look beyond his own experience. He views himself as kind of a "JW Expert" of sorts and to be honest it seems like he is trying to build a career on it (plugged his movie in a "i believe" segment!!!).

Tatiana

Great article. There's an old "Knocking" thread I need this for. Good points here from all.

Joel Engardio JW essay on NPR yesterday (link)..decent piece actually...

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