The legality of shunning

by DT 20 Replies latest jw friends

  • DT
    DT

    Hello, I'm new to the group. I disassociated myself a couple of months
    ago. I have a question. I have been thinking about the legality of
    shunning in the United States. I know it's a difficult situation
    because the courts are very reluctant to interfere with the
    religious rights of the organisation of Jehovah's Witnesses. Of
    course, the individual members have a right to shun anyone they want
    to.

    Still, it seems that there may be some weaknesses in their defence.
    Sometimes, disfellowshipping is defended on the basis that there
    exists a kind of agreement between a religious organisation and it's members and that either party can terminate this
    association at any time. If a religion can expel members for any
    reason without suffering consequences, shouldn't the members have the
    same right to leave without facing retaliation? I don't have a big
    problem with individuals deciding to shun someone if they choose to do
    so. The wts, however, requires its members to shun and uses
    intimidation (threat of disfellowshipping) to enforce its policy. This
    is for the purpose of punishing someone who is no longer in their
    religion. It seems to me that a person should have the unquestioned
    right to practice a religion or resign from a religion without fear of
    retaliation or persecution. Shouldn't the rights of an individual
    outweigh the rights of an organisation? Is it even correct to talk
    about the religious rights of an organisation or does this just apply
    to individuals? You have probably already discussed this general
    topic, but I would appreciate your thoughts.

  • purplesofa
    purplesofa

    hey

    Just wanted to Welcome you to the Board.

    We all have the right to NOT shun, we chose to give up that right.

    purps

  • AWAKE&WATCHING
    AWAKE&WATCHING

    First of all,

    W E L C O M E

    I totally agree but I know nothing about the law. Others do though so stick around.

  • blueviceroy
  • Magick
    Magick

    w88 4/15 p. 26 Discipline That Can Yield Peaceable Fruit

    The

    CourtDecision

    16

    You may want to know the outcome of the court case involving a woman who was upset because former acquaintances would not converse with her after she chose to reject the faith, disassociating herself from the congregation.

    17

    Before the case went to trial, a federal district court summarily granted judgment against her. That judgment was based on the concept that courts do not get involved in church disciplinary matters. She then appealed. The unanimous judgment of the federal court of appeals was based on broader grounds of First Amendment (of the U.S. Constitution) rights: "Because the practice of shunning is a part of the faith of the Jehovah’s Witness, we find that the ‘free exercise’ provision of the United States Constitution . . . precludes [her] from prevailing. The defendants have a constitutionally protected privilege to engage in the practice of shunning. Accordingly, we affirm" the earlier judgment of the district court.

    18

    The court opinion continued: "Shunning is a practice engaged in by Jehovah’s Witnesses pursuant to their interpretation of canonical text, and we are not free to reinterpret that text . . . The defendants are entitled to the free exercise of their religious beliefs . . . Courts generally do not scrutinize closely the relationship among members (or former members) of a church. Churches are afforded great latitude when they impose discipline on members or former members. We agree with [former U.S. Supreme Court] Justice Jackson’s view that ‘[r]eligious activities which concern only members of the faith are and ought to be free—as nearly absolutely free as anything can be.’ . . . The members of the Church [she] decided to abandon have concluded that they no longer want to associate with her. We hold that they are free to make that choice."

    19

    The court of appeals acknowledged that even if the woman felt distress because former acquaintances chose not to converse with her, "permitting her to recover for intangible or emotional injuries would unconstitutionally restrict the Jehovah’s Witnesses free exercise of religion . . . The constitutional guarantee of the free exercise of religion requires that society tolerate the type of harms suffered by [her] as a price well worth paying to safeguard the right of religious difference that all citizens enjoy." This decision has, in a sense, received even more weight since it was handed down. How so? The woman later petitioned the highest court in the land to hear the case and possibly overturn the decision against her. But in November 1987, the United States Supreme Court refused to do so.

    20

    Hence, this important case determined that a disfellowshipped or disassociated person cannot recover damages from Jehovah’s Witnesses in a court of law for being shunned. Since the congregation was responding to the perfect directions that all of us can read in God’s Word and applying it, the person is feeling a loss brought on by his or her own actions.

    Footnote:

    John here used khai´ro, which was a greeting like "good day" or "hello." (Acts 15:23; Matthew 28:9) He did not use a·spa´zo·mai (as in verse 13), which means "to enfold in the arms, thus to greet, to welcome" and may have implied a very warm greeting, even with an embrace. (Luke 10:4; 11:43; Acts 20:1, 37; 1 Thessalonians 5:26) So the direction at 2 John 11 could well mean not to say even "hello" to such ones.—See TheWatchtower of July 15, 1985, page 31.

    For a discussion of a relative’s being disfellowshipped, see TheWatchtower of September 15, 1981, pages 26-31.

    819 F.2d 875 (9th Cir. 1987).

    Though various individuals have brought suit, no court has rendered a judgment against Jehovah’s Witnesses over their Bible-based practice of shunning.

    Box in magazine: Excommunication—What

    Effect?

    English historian Edward Gibbon wrote about the propriety and effect of disfellowshipping nearer the time of the apostles:

    "It is the undoubted right of every society to exclude from its communion and benefits such among its members as reject or violate those regulations which have been established by general consent. . . . The consequences of excommunication were of a temporal [earthly] as well as a spiritual nature. The Christian against whom it was pronounced was deprived of any part in the oblations of the faithful. The ties both of religious and of private friendship were dissolved.

    g87 10/22 p. 27 The United States Constitution and Jehovah's Witnesses

    On June 10, 1987, the courts once again ruled in favor of religious freedom for Jehovah’s Witnesses on constitutional grounds. As reported in TheNewYorkTimes, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ruled that freedom to act in harmony with their religious beliefs "must be tolerated by society, under the Constitution, ‘as a price well worth paying to safeguard the right of religious difference that all citizens enjoy.’" The case involved the Witnesses’ right to obey the Bible’s command ‘never to receive into your homes or say a greeting’ to those who do "not remain in the teaching of the Christ."—2 John 9-11.

  • Magick
    Magick

    Hi DT! I apologize for not saying HELLO before I blasted a Watchtower Article!

    "HELLO!" WE ARE GLAD YOU ARE HERE!!

    alt

  • Magick
  • Magick
  • 5go
    5go

    Actualy shunning is on very shaky ground and I am surprised more don't try to end it thru the angle of character defamation. Your right to free religion does not come at the cost of my right to a attack my good name without the proof to back it up your claim.

    It has worked in the past which is the reason they say you chose to leave "so and so is no longer a witness" instead of them saying they DFed you "so and so has been disfellowshipped" . Saying you chose to leave makes it look like you had a choose in leaving. Which is a huge lie to say the least.

  • steve2
    steve2

    Organizations and individuals have the right to shun others. End of story. It's hard to take but one of the painful things life flings at us to help us develop as adults, rather than to crawl around as poor little children in despair because the people who we thought loved us now shun us.

    Who knows what unexpected strength and clear-mindedness might come out of this? I would prefer that people did not shun me. But they do. And at the same time, my surviving in the midst of such subtle cruely has enabled me to develop the ability to stand on my own two feet, free from the desperate need for constant approval and hugs.

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