I'm Screwed Up, You're Screwed Up

by Farkel 156 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Cowboy

  OK,I'm going to attempt to respond to Farkel's original post.

  Farkel,excellent post.You've stated the things I've been thinking for some time now.

  When I first came to this board,I was impressed with the debates.Many intellegent and well-spoken posters made it very interesting and educational.But,either it's gotten worse in the short time I've been here,or I just didn't see it in the beginning.

  Too many times,things turn ugly,more often than not simply due to anomosities between posters.Everything seems to have become personal,with debate turning into petty and vindictive sniping,often outright cruelty.

  Some people here aren't nearly as strong as others.They may have come here for support,but when they ask for it,someone almost always responds with sarcasm,doubt or more cruelty.Sometimes even the strong ones need a little support.

  Worse yet,the cruelty extends beyond the forum,into the chatroom,and on into personal e-mails (sometimes sent anonymously),even further into personal lives.Why do some people feel the need to do this?

  Farkel,I for one appreciate your call for a little more compassion.It's the very least we can do.

  'Nuff Said,

  Cowboy

  We ride and never worry about the fall
  I guess that's just the cowboy in us all
• 

  waiting1

  Howdy Cowboy,

  When I first came to this board,I was impressed with the debates.Many intellegent and well-spoken posters made it very interesting and educational.But,either it's gotten worse in the short time I've been here,or I just didn't see it in the beginning.

  I think the intelligent, well-speaking, interesting, educational people are still here, along with the others like me. I know that some posters have just gone away, for a variety of reasons.

  But different issues bring out different emotions. Some are tied to male/female, money, jw background, sex - and we now have the freedom to say what we want - any way we want. Some of us take our freedom of words to an extreme.

  But for what it's worth - this is an exceptional place at times. At other times, guess it's just human.

  I also agree with Farkel for the most part, and posted as such with Happy Heathen. Glad you brought back the thread to it's intended subject - giving room for allowances to others, particularily with our screwy jw background.

  waiting
• 

  Julie

  :Well actually I don't see how the answer to this question is somehow a major point, but it does go a long way in helping ppl to see that the circumstances which gave teeth to Reformation sentiments in Europe had nothing to do with religion.

  Perhaps, when you were looking up your answer, you may have noticed that the reformation had *plenty* to do with religion. Mostly the fact with how intertwined religion and secular interests were. Of course you do point out it does "go a long way" in highlighting the circumstances so, in spite of your first claim (not a major point), you bring it to the fore as the major point that it is. Interesting contradiction there bigboi.

  Thanks anyway but it wasn't me who needed the lesson in history. I gotta ask though, when you were reading about this weren't you just slapping your thigh over the Pope's "strategy"? And the legate he sent!! Campeggio!! (synonomous with Molasses!) Amazing too that Anne had the will to hold Henry off as long as she did eh? Oh and as far as the "world's most prominent Protestant" goes, good thing Henry didn't hear you say that. He took great pains to show himself more Catholic than the Pope. Even went so far as to burn a few more heretics and such to "prove" it. Interesting times.

  Julie
• 

  bigboi

  Why do I waste my time?

  Perhaps, when you were looking up your answer, you may have noticed that the reformation had *plenty* to do with religion

  I never said that the Reformation didn't have anything to do with religion. I said the circumstances that gave the Reformation strength had nothing to do with religion. In the sense that what gave it it's true impetus was really a mad King's quest for an heir.

  Of course you do point out it does "go a long way" in highlighting the circumstances so, in spite of your first claim (not a major point), you bring it to the fore as the major point that it is. Interesting contradiction there bigboi.

  Well it is a nice tidbit about history to know. Is it a major point about the Reformation? Yes and no. It all depends at the angle from which you are veiwing things. For instance later on in your reply you allude to the fact that Henry's break with the Catholic Church was more an administrative one than a religious one. Yes, it is true he still held to many of the beliefs of the Catholic church though those around him urged him to make his break with Catholicism a religious one as well. However, it has to be admitted that his conservatism helped the English to accept the core changes he made because doctrine and worship changed little.

  So that's right. The major point is Henry VIII wanted a divorce. He couldn't get it from the pope, so he used anti-papal sentiment in England to effect an administrative break with the Roman Church. Why the pope refused to give Henry the divorce is a tantalizing bit of info, gossip or whatever. It's good to know but imo, not tantamount to knowing that Henry VIII gave the Reformation a tremendous boost by breaking ties with the Catholic church.

  ONE....

  bigboi
• 

  Rex B13

  There itis Shelby. I had said that it is God's province to judge the hearts of man, then you replied:

  >Uh, not quite, Rexie. He has COMMITTED such judging... to our Lord. Yes? The One of whom it is said, "he well knows what is IN man"? And THAT One DID tell US that 'by their fruits'... we would know the 'children of the Devil'... yes?

  You don't even realize that Jesus IS God and you call yourself a 'Chrsitian'? BTW, the above reference to scripture needs to be quoted to discern the context. Your simpering false humility will not do here. Some of us see through it.

  >Is KNOWING... the same as JUDGING? I think not.

  So now Shelby has a little of God's own sovereignty?

  >For my Father shows mercy to whomever HE wishes to show it, yes?

  Yes? NO? Quote the scripture and relate the context please.

  >But, did not Paul expose Peter... face to face... as a hypocrite? Was that 'judging'?

  Hypocrite is a strong word in referring to an apostle. YOU are not an apostle no matter how much you want to be.

  >And did not the apostles call Paul to task for HIS erroneous judging? And did Paul not 'repent' of it?

  Scripture, verse, context?

  quote:
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  and we are viewing only the rough surface that is yet coal but may some day be a diamond.
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  >Absolutely. And it is my SINCEREST hope that ALL are found to be 'diamonds'. Otherwise, why bother speaking at all? Why not just write everyone off? Because my Lord didn't, my Father didn't... and neither do I.

  Then why do you keep, "playing to the crowd" and pretending to be God's channel, just like the Borg that you left?

  quote:
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  Your own words condemn you.
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  >I am not aware of anything against myself in this matter, Rex. If I were, I would state it, here, publicly. And apologize. Publicly.
  And please know that I am not 'angry' at Julie. By NO means. She made a statement that we are 'all God's children'. But if that were true, then SOMEBODY'S lying... because my Lord called SOME... 'offspring of vipers'. Yes? And our brother John intimated to us how we could the 'children of the Devil'. Tell me... are the children of the Devil... the children of God?

  Are you yourself not an 'object of wrath' since you deny the deity of Christ? BTW, again, you need scripture, verse and context....

  >quote:
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  The Law Covenant is fullfilled in Christ HE died for all of the sins of the world. Israel was to be the 'light of the world', but failed. Those who belong to Christ are in the world yet because God desires all to be saved.
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  >Absolutely. God desires all to be saved. Unfortunately, like Israel, however... not all DESIRE to be saved. Many feel no NEED to be saved, yes? However, 'for as many as DID receive him'... there is salvation. Yes? What salvation is there for those who do not WANT... or think they NEED... to be saved?

  Scripture, verse, context.

  >And THEN you quote:
  quote:
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  41 "Then he will say to those on his left, `Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' 44 "They also will answer, `Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' 45 "He will reply, `I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' 46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
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  >... and ask ME does that make ME pause "just a little". Tell me, doesn't it make YOU pause? Just a little?

  Are you going to answer the question or not?

  You go on to say:
  >quote:
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  8 He replied: "Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, `I am he,' and, `The time is near.' Do not follow them.
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  ... and ask "Does that sound just a little like some self-proclaimed prophets?"

  >Absolutely. It does. But surely you are not applying those words to me? I have made NO such statements... implied or otherwise. I am NOT 'he'... and I have NO idea when 'the time' is. I am not even CONCERNED with the time, for my 'commission' is not BASED on timeframes. I don't have a set number of years given me. I hear; I go; I speak. If it comes soon... great. If it doesn't... not even in my lifetime... so what? Are we TRULY to be concerned with doing our Lord's will within a certain timeframe? 1914... 1975... 2000... 3000... means nothing to me, Rex. Truly. I've been promised NOTHING in this sytem of things... and EVERYTHING in that one... and I will get it... when I get it. And if I don't... I still will not consider my time 'wasted' or lost. I do not DO it for want of a reward. I do it... out of love... for my Father... my Lord... and those they love and that love them. Period. I have NO other 'motivation'... not even fear. For love... casts fear OUTSIDE.

  I hit you right in your achilles heel. Isn't it time for you to confess your deceit right here and now. We have all seen quotes from you aluding to; hinting at; claiming to be a 'channel of God'. confession is good for the soul.

  quote:
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  What amazing arrogance.
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  >If you think me arrogant, please, let me say two things:
  First, I apologize, for that was not my intention at all... nor my desire. Second, my Lord was thought arrogant... as were those prior to me. Truly, nothing new under the sun. Question is: who was it, truly, that THOUGHT them 'arrogant'?

  You have NO business comparing yourself to our Lord. You have no authority and this is another example of your arrogance. I am trying to get through to you.

  >quote:
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  Do not judge, lest you be judged.
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  >I will 'hear' your counsel, Rex... and consider it. I WILL 'examine' my heart... and if I find you to be 'in the right', I WILL repent... in sackcloth and ashes... and state so, publicly.
  Again, peace to you... and no, my words are not 'empty'.

  AMEN.
  Rex
• 

  AGuest

  Dearest Rex... may you have peace.

  I started to do my 'usual' "bump-by-bump" response... but have been directed not to, but rather, to let your response 'stand'. Those who can and will 'hear' and 'see', will do so, without me 'debating' the matter with you further.

  Please know that I spoke truth to you, dear one, truthfully. But the fact that you believe my Lord to be my Father and my God... and HIS Father and HIS God... kinda makes anything I would say in reply... well, moot, anyway. Yes? I can tell you, though, they are NOT one and the same... although they indeed ARE 'one', by means of a union of spirit. I know this to be true, because I have seen and heard them... both (although not the face of my Father and His voice only twice)... and I PROMISE you, they are NOT one individual. Not even.

  But... believe what you will. I have spoken truth to you, as I said, truthfully, and have very little, if anything at all, to add.

  Again, I bid you peace,

  YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

  SJ (who asks you to remember the words of my Lord when he said that a slave is NOT greater than his master... and that if [they] persecuted him... and called HIM 'Beelzebub'... [they] would do so to those 'sent' by him as well, including those 'prior' to ones like me. Truly... nothing new under the sun, but certainly 'grounds' for me to say that the same ones that call me 'arrogant' may be of the same 'stock' as those who called my Lord ... AND those 'prior' to me... so. Peace!)
• 

  seeitallclearlynow

  I love Farkel's "stuff" and I enjoyed a lot of the responses to this particular topic of his so I am bumping this one up for the newer ones to enjoy too. May also serve as a little walk down memory lane as some of those who responded here don't visit much anymore, if at all.